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1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
Ten Great Cars No One Ever Bought
DOTS-O-Rama Sunday: Alfa Romeo 164L

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ChazzyD
10/19/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
An identical twin to the one I drive everyday. 188,000 miles on the clock and still going strong. I do all my own work on it and hope to keep it until I can buy a new Alfa in the USA. Which will hopefully be sooner than later. #alfaromeo
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Jim-Bob
10/19/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
The 164 really doesn't do anything for me. It kinda reminds me of the Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco twins. Plus, it uses a FWD chassis that is shared with several other cars. If I was to look for 4 door Italian Alfa hell from the 80's, it would be a Milano. It's RWD and has the front engine/ rear transaxle configuration that offers better balance than the front drive setup in most 164's.
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monsterajr
10/19/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
My lust for these cars started after seeing a dark green one in Italy in 89'. The euro bumpers are smaller and the body cladding wasn't as obvious in darker colors. Years later and I nearly bought one but got a GTV-6 instead. They are relatively bulletproof except for the AC stepper motors, earlier digital readouts and timing belts. I still want a 164S but can't rightfully justify it to the commander in chief. #alfaromeo
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quayzar
10/19/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
I know of three of those here in Charlottesville, VA. One I have seen since it was new when I was a kid and has been lovingly cared for and one that looks like the paint faded 20 years before it was made. #alfaromeo
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Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. .
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
Hopefully with the triumphant return of Alfa, old Alfas like this can actually return to their home, and proper mechanics.

Or still be typical italian cars and still break down all the time and require massive, hugely expensive, repairs by distraught shade-tree mechanics. #alfaromeo
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Rupunzell
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
Back in the day I was torn between purchasing a 164 or SAAB 9000T. Drove both cars, the chassis in the Alfa is biased with a sporty disposition while the SAAB was very much an all around, all weather conditions daily driver. The Alfa has a very sweet V6, while the turbo 4 in the SAAB was economical and durable. The hatch back won me over as it is simply more versatile in ever way over the 164 3 box body. In the end, I choose the 1991, 9000t which is still with me to day as a daily driver nearing 350,000 miles on the original engine and chassis. The 9000t has been with me in driving rain, wheel deep snow and HOT expanses of CA where there is nothing to be seen for miles on end. Ever versatile, ever reliable, ever durable. But, my heart stays with the Alfa for it has much more automotive passion than the SAAB ever will. The 9000T is almost German in it's personality.

The US never got the Lancia Thema or FIAT Chroma version of this chassis. If the Lancia Thema was available, that would have been my choice over the SAAB. Even more so for the V8 Ferrari powered version of the Lancia Thema 8.32 #alfaromeo
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SagarikaLumos
10/18/09

@Rupunzell: I think that a Lancia Thema 8.32 could be effectively simulated by putting a Northstar in a SAAB 9000. The only problem with the 8.32 is that it doesn't have a flat crank, so it doesn't SOUND like a Ferrari, even if it has the engine from one. #alfaromeo
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Rupunzell
10/18/09

@SagarikaLumos:
That is correct, the Lancia 8.32 does not have a flat crank so it does not sound like a Ferrari. The Lancia folks were after smooth, quiet power with a broad torque curve. If the Lancia folks wanted a flat crank V8, they could have easily done so, as with every design, designers choose what the contents are to meet their design goals. There is a lot more to the Lancia 8.32 than just the engine. Main problem with this Lancia and other FWD cars with this much power, is torque steer.

BTW, there are a few Lancia MonteCarlos with this Ferrari V8 in place of the FIAT/Lancia 4 pot twin cam. #alfaromeo
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Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
10/19/09

@Rupunzell: 9000 have equal length half shafts, so no torque steer. #alfaromeo
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Rupunzell
10/19/09

@Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet:
9000T does indeed have torque steer. How do I know, it's been my daily driver since the early 90's. The drive shafts are similar in length, not 100% equal length, how do I know, I have replaced and rebuilt them more than once. #alfaromeo
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Ford Tempo Fanatic
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
None of that rubber-y 'Merican crap that Detroit stuck on the side panels and doors of everything they made in the early 90s/late 80s. #alfaromeo
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Six Flags Over Tomsk
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
Beautiful design, and probably sounds fantastic with that pseudo-fart can.

But the reliability (or lack thereof) makes 164 ownership a lot less tempting. #alfaromeo
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Turboner
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
I'm pretty sure this was the car my ex-neighbor with the engine hoist had. He raced a vintage Alfa, and would let me borrow any tools I needed because I couldn't help myself from mowing his lawn, as it was connected to mine. Super cool guy, why did he have to move? #alfaromeo
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MushyHeirloom
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
I saw one of these in Scotland. Didn't think twice.

Should've. #alfaromeo
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tonyola
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
It's such a shame that these really handsome sedans were so flawed when it came to quality. I've known a couple of people who have owned 164s, and they say that's it's such a sweet car to drive but a nightmare to own.

This was one of the "Type Four" cars (Lancia Thema, Fiat Croma, Saab 9000, and the 164), all sharing a same basic platform in the interest of saving costs. The Alfa was the last to appear and also the best-looking of the bunch. Alfa has never had much success with big luxury sedans, but the 164 was as close as they got. #alfaromeo
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Rodas_luso
10/18/09

Although sweet, they had amazing torque steer ( and the one I drove was the twin spark 4 with 150 hp only ) and because of that they were not that good for our small twisting roads.
But from the 4 brothers or cousins, for me, the Lancia Thema still remains the most special. The Thema turbo 16v had so much grunt that it would make a kind of FWD burnout if you pressed first or second too hard :)
Amazing for the young kid I once was. #alfaromeo
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tonyola
10/18/09

@Rodas_luso: Unfortunately, the Thema was never officially imported into the US, but it looks like a few of the 8.32s made their way stateside. #alfaromeo
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FrankAlfa
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
I loved my Alfa Romeo 164 when I owned it! I sold it with 165,000 miles on it! I used to love driving it with my girlfriend Erica's LONG, LONG slender legs stretched out on the front dasy and the sun shining through the sun roof. Driving through the Lincoln Tunnel in 3rd gear winding the motor to 6000 RPM's!
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Novaload
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
That's a clean, fine automobile. I'm not crazy about the appliance white color but I total respect its Italianocity and rarity. #alfaromeo
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87CapriceEstate
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
What could make the owner even more crazy (or just plain devoted) is the fact that the license plates on this sedan were issued from 1998-2000 which means either a new owner, new plates, or an immigrant from out of state. #alfaromeo
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Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
10/18/09

In reply to 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L
Nice cars. This looks to be in pretty tremendous shape for a driver. Few scrapes to bumpers and trim. Only real defect is that 'I' decal on the back. For a company about to cut and run from the US, these sold pretty well and a goodly percentage are still around and being cared for and used. Must because of all the interchange parts you can source from Peugeot and SAAB. #alfaromeo
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Anaximander
10/18/09

@Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet:
I had a long time crush on the 164 (especially the Q) but glove-soft leather and polished headers aside, they're kind of awful. The back seats are tighter than a second-gen Probe, which is bizzarre considering how huge the Saab 9000 is. And while I love the look of the dashboard-cum-NASA launch panel, it's a horrible, horrible layout for a real car.

Still, in black or silver? That design holds up as well as anything built that decade, notchy character lines and all. #alfaromeo
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Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
10/19/09

@anaxomander: Agreed. The dash is so beautiful to look at, but it's a forest of the same size buttons without any textural differentiation. You'd always be hitting the wrong button, unless you take a good look at it. #alfaromeo
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brandegee
10/19/09

I still see these used as daily drivers, even in the Northeast. Even though it's inferior to a Saab 9000, on a practicality basis, it's comforting to know that even in the great white North an Alfa devotee can still drive the marque to work year-round.

Of course, they're still waiting for Alfa's return! 8C doesn't count. #alfaromeo
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1991 Alfa Romeo 164 L

Ten Great Cars No One Ever Bought

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