This actually kind of reminds me of what made me start commenting here instead of just lurking all the damn time. (after typing all this, I realize how terribly long it is and apologize in advance)
I used to be on the forums over at Streetfire.net, even made my way up to moderator status, and was there for a few years. We were chugging along as a nice little forum, kind of small, but we were always getting new members floating in from the video section. After a while, the founders/owners of the place decided that those of us that had been on the site for long enough could have our own "secret" section of the forums. It was cool at first, we mods kind of used it as a way to get input from the non mods on how we could enforce better, what stuff needed to be taken care of, all that kind of thing, and it made everyone feel more involved with the well being of the forum. Unfortunately, after a while, this is the only part of the forum that was getting posted in all that often, since the senior members, as they were called, saw themselves as somehow superior for being on the site longer, which resulted in the site becoming less inviting and cliquey, so new members started not coming. It got to the point that the owners told us mods not to ban new members for a while, even if they were being total asshats, which caused HUGE problems.
After all that was happening, they slowly started hiding the forum button on the main page. Today, it is on the very bottom of the page, similar to where the Gawker sister sites are here, but it isn't a fancy logo you can notice. What it all came down to is that without the new members coming to the forums, the new management (who fired a couple of the founders, which caused most of the problems, IMHO) decided that the forums were not worth the trouble, and supposedly this month, they are turning off the severs.
I guess my point is this, JalopAdmins: Please don't make Jalopnik like StreetFire's forums. At the very least, show everyone's comments by default, and throw a "Show only Featured" button at the top. I know I am just a tiny member in the land of power commenters like Ash and Deathair, but at least think about it. Please?
I like Jalopnik alot, and the subject matter (Obviously) appeals to the vast majority of the readers. But I don't just come here for that. It's a community, and I like that. I only recently got into commenting, and at that only a few small things mixed in here and there. I'm not a "Star" commentor, and so when I post it tends to get kind of hidden behind other posts. It doesn't bother me that much, but how will people new to Jalopnik react? It seems like it would be very discouraging becoming an active commentor on the sight now. Just my two cents.
So I get busy with life in the offline automotive universe and fade out of Jalopnik for a bit. I decide to pop in today for a quick hit to find my universe turned upside down. As the equivalent of a Jalopnik commenter geriatric, I fear change. Yet I am forced to embrace it. On the other hand, I feel all special again. Just like when they started handing out stars the first time around. So far the changes are great. I've hardly contributed in the last while because it seemed my comments were instantly lost in a sea of 300 posts.
After stumbling upon Jalopnik last year, I had grown accustomed to the rantings and discourse of not just star commenters (the 'Stars') but also those without the stars (the 'Minardi') who, more often than not, injected the large portion of humor that made this site worth trawling through. Indeed, the majority of the intense discussions on this site/blog/whateveryouwanttocallit were between the Stars and the 'Minardi'.
I have read the assurances made by the Stars suggesting that they will look at all comments (and for the sake of this site, I hope they do), yet I can't help but feel as if I'm just 'riff raf'.
While I created an account especially to post this comment (and I will continue to post comments going forward- I have finally garnered the strength!), I can only hope that those who truly deserve to be on the front page, both Stars and Minardi, either through wit or intelligence, are given the opportunity to do so.
Edited by They're taking the hobbits to Izenguard! at 07/10/09 7:44 AM
They're taking the hobbits to Izenguard! was starred
They're taking the hobbits to Izenguard! was unstarred
When I first discovered Jalopnik several years ago, I called on all of my writing - and marketing - skills to become accepted as a commenter. I made witty references to El Caminos, turbocharged my verbiage and spelled everything correctly. I was pleased to be accepted and felt welcome by my fellow Jalops. I continued to comment on topics where I have some particular expertise. For example, I will often comment on Indy Car racing because I have been a long time follower of the sport and have even written about it in print publications. I also comment on Jaguars because I have owned a couple of these cantankerous, but magnificent motorcars. (British accent effected.)
Now, I find that I have been relegated to the second class "Minardi" camp.
I have no problem with a two tiered system of commenters, where the "Minardi" writers are relegated to the second page.
However, I was previously accepted to the "Brawn and Red Bull" level and do not wish to be demoted. Nor do I feel that I should have to prove myself a second time when I have always made an effort to uphold the apparent standards of the Jalop; that is to comment with wit, grit, gasoline, aluminum und schteel, with grammatical correctitude and spelling that is more or less correct.
I won’t tell the overlords that I am leaving Jalopnik because I very much enjoy reading the articles and comments, and I am not one to stamp my feet - like Danica Patrick - to get my way. But I can’t see myself commenting as a "Minardi" Jalop either.
@offyatindy: I feel your pain. Having been out of the loop for a few days, I find I have 'awoken' to find a whole new Jalopworld. I’ve been frequent Jalopnik reader since’04 or ’05- back before there were comments. Since late last year, I have begun attempting to exercise greater consistency in remember user names and password across the Gawker sites and elsewhere (this despite the lasting affects of my activities in the 80’s as a carless nare-do-well).
Like you, I have put forth an honest effort to submit thoughtfully composed and useful comments. I will admit to a few rash, absurd, and potentially inane comments, but alcohol tends to make me a bit mouthy. As a commenter on Jalopnik, I have generally enjoyed the exercise. The responses, banter and encouragement from other readers have been thoroughly enjoyable and even uplifting.
Over the past year or so though, I have seen a negative trend in the signal to noise ratio in the comments section. The sources of noise are several and include the usual internet riff-raff and occasional luddites awakening clumsily to the information age. But a substantial amount of noise comes from the folks who comment most frequently which often involve screen names with stars next to them. I sometimes question the awarding of stars. Is it possible some were awarded for the volume of comments rather than the quality? It is clear that certain readers seemingly have nothing better to do than to eagerly watch for the next post and rush to comment FIRST! If in any way this new scheme addresses some of these issues, I am wholeheartedly in favor of the change. With any luck, merit will be rewarded and noise will get the Dolby treatment.
I applaud the Jalopnik / Gawker editors for attempting to improve the quality to quantity ratio by providing a much needed update to the comment system. Additional props for addressing the long missing edit feature. For those of us waiting behind the velvet rope with something to offer, Comments 2.0 may actually help us be seen and heard. Perhaps the changes will help us earn the chin-nod from the big guy at the door
I will openly admit to socialising more than contributing of late, and even my contirbutions are mostly more entertaining than informative.
But, Pete and Co. please keep encouraging some funny ones, even if they are not entirely on topic.
I am so far liking this new system, although I wish the show all button was at the top, since that means I don't have to read the featured comments all over again, looking for Megan Fox photos to promote.
One more thing, I am a little sad that you no longer have to "learn" about posting photos.
I pop onto Jalopnik today and suddenly comments are all looney. Things are different, and I can't say I like it, though I suppose it's for the better if it's to keep jalop elite.
Bloody hell this is complicated; I suppose I'll definitely have to keep it to myself and limit chatter.
Then again, I suppose I should probably go back to long, glorious tirades on Project Car Hell.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I liked classic view.
I'm really hoping that I'm considered to be the first type of commentator and not the second. For the record, I do enjoy tearing apart ugly, pointless cars and my unholy love of Hyundais (particularly the Genesis and Elantra) comes from my own experience as an owner and how shocked I've been about how good the car is. My hatred of muscle cars has been a lifelong thing as well and it's more of a philosophy thing then anything (I like my cars small, light, with great handling and very little power.)
Essentially, I'm not trying to be a dick, it's more a combo of being both passionate and particular and I certainly hope that my comments are taken that way (and apologize if they aren't.)
*Raises hand* Has anyone mentioned how hard it will be to keep track of all the comments that appear between each time we view a post? Were there so few of us 'classic view' diehards left?
Wow... I leave for a mere 18
hours, and WE GET AN EDIT BUTTON!!! I am in awe of the machine that is Gawker Media Network. Well done, Overlords, well done indeed!
"In the past, Stars were designated by virtue of their popularity among other commenters. That tended to favor the sociable rather than commenters who contributed information to a discussion. "
I had have a star (it's still there!), and I'm probably the most UN-sociable sob around. So what's up with that?
I'm happy for the edit button, but I still miss Murilee.
After hitting submit, all my line breaks were gone; must we add our own html tags? This is sounding like work.
@thunder; now eta-powered: i got mine over at Lifehacker or Consumerist i think... probably lifehacker...
BTW depending on which browser you are using, there used to be a greasemonkey script that did all the HTML codes automatically on Gawker sites. for more info goto lifehacker and search Greasemonkey
07/11/09
I like the edit button. I don't like having to put in my own line feeds.
I have been commenting only rarely, but now that nothing I say will ever be seen, I'll stop.
"Someone has to be Minardi" is a pretty clear way to say "Stop posting and wasting our time". So I will.
Bye.
07/10/09
I used to be on the forums over at Streetfire.net, even made my way up to moderator status, and was there for a few years. We were chugging along as a nice little forum, kind of small, but we were always getting new members floating in from the video section. After a while, the founders/owners of the place decided that those of us that had been on the site for long enough could have our own "secret" section of the forums. It was cool at first, we mods kind of used it as a way to get input from the non mods on how we could enforce better, what stuff needed to be taken care of, all that kind of thing, and it made everyone feel more involved with the well being of the forum. Unfortunately, after a while, this is the only part of the forum that was getting posted in all that often, since the senior members, as they were called, saw themselves as somehow superior for being on the site longer, which resulted in the site becoming less inviting and cliquey, so new members started not coming. It got to the point that the owners told us mods not to ban new members for a while, even if they were being total asshats, which caused HUGE problems.
After all that was happening, they slowly started hiding the forum button on the main page. Today, it is on the very bottom of the page, similar to where the Gawker sister sites are here, but it isn't a fancy logo you can notice. What it all came down to is that without the new members coming to the forums, the new management (who fired a couple of the founders, which caused most of the problems, IMHO) decided that the forums were not worth the trouble, and supposedly this month, they are turning off the severs.
I guess my point is this, JalopAdmins: Please don't make Jalopnik like StreetFire's forums. At the very least, show everyone's comments by default, and throw a "Show only Featured" button at the top. I know I am just a tiny member in the land of power commenters like Ash and Deathair, but at least think about it. Please?
07/10/09
07/10/09
The edit button works pretty well too. Well done.
07/10/09
I have read the assurances made by the Stars suggesting that they will look at all comments (and for the sake of this site, I hope they do), yet I can't help but feel as if I'm just 'riff raf'.
While I created an account especially to post this comment (and I will continue to post comments going forward- I have finally garnered the strength!), I can only hope that those who truly deserve to be on the front page, both Stars and Minardi, either through wit or intelligence, are given the opportunity to do so.
Hopefully Jalopnik can still retain its charm.
Now if only we had a WYSIWYG format...
07/10/09
if it is just to weed out irrelevant comments and trolling you just need more comment moderators... or just give banhammer privileges to more people
just saying is all...
07/09/09
Now, I find that I have been relegated to the second class "Minardi" camp.
I have no problem with a two tiered system of commenters, where the "Minardi" writers are relegated to the second page.
However, I was previously accepted to the "Brawn and Red Bull" level and do not wish to be demoted. Nor do I feel that I should have to prove myself a second time when I have always made an effort to uphold the apparent standards of the Jalop; that is to comment with wit, grit, gasoline, aluminum und schteel, with grammatical correctitude and spelling that is more or less correct.
I won’t tell the overlords that I am leaving Jalopnik because I very much enjoy reading the articles and comments, and I am not one to stamp my feet - like Danica Patrick - to get my way. But I can’t see myself commenting as a "Minardi" Jalop either.
07/10/09
Like you, I have put forth an honest effort to submit thoughtfully composed and useful comments. I will admit to a few rash, absurd, and potentially inane comments, but alcohol tends to make me a bit mouthy. As a commenter on Jalopnik, I have generally enjoyed the exercise. The responses, banter and encouragement from other readers have been thoroughly enjoyable and even uplifting.
Over the past year or so though, I have seen a negative trend in the signal to noise ratio in the comments section. The sources of noise are several and include the usual internet riff-raff and occasional luddites awakening clumsily to the information age. But a substantial amount of noise comes from the folks who comment most frequently which often involve screen names with stars next to them. I sometimes question the awarding of stars. Is it possible some were awarded for the volume of comments rather than the quality? It is clear that certain readers seemingly have nothing better to do than to eagerly watch for the next post and rush to comment FIRST! If in any way this new scheme addresses some of these issues, I am wholeheartedly in favor of the change. With any luck, merit will be rewarded and noise will get the Dolby treatment.
I applaud the Jalopnik / Gawker editors for attempting to improve the quality to quantity ratio by providing a much needed update to the comment system. Additional props for addressing the long missing edit feature. For those of us waiting behind the velvet rope with something to offer, Comments 2.0 may actually help us be seen and heard. Perhaps the changes will help us earn the chin-nod from the big guy at the door
07/09/09
But, Pete and Co. please keep encouraging some funny ones, even if they are not entirely on topic.
I am so far liking this new system, although I wish the show all button was at the top, since that means I don't have to read the featured comments all over again, looking for Megan Fox photos to promote.
One more thing, I am a little sad that you no longer have to "learn" about posting photos.
07/09/09
Bloody hell this is complicated; I suppose I'll definitely have to keep it to myself and limit chatter.
Then again, I suppose I should probably go back to long, glorious tirades on Project Car Hell.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I liked classic view.
And holy christ, an EDIT button.
07/09/09
Anyone like me, because I don't get to show excellent cotmer servis until I get to the house computer.
07/09/09
Essentially, I'm not trying to be a dick, it's more a combo of being both passionate and particular and I certainly hope that my comments are taken that way (and apologize if they aren't.)
07/09/09
07/09/09
07/09/09
07/09/09
hours, and WE GET AN EDIT BUTTON!!! I am in awe of the machine that is Gawker Media Network. Well done, Overlords, well done indeed!
"Can we EDIT?"
YES WE CAN!
07/09/09
I
hadhave a star (it's still there!), and I'm probably the most UN-sociable sob around. So what's up with that?I'm happy for the edit button, but I still miss Murilee.
After hitting submit, all my line breaks were gone; must we add our own html tags? This is sounding like work.
07/10/09
BTW depending on which browser you are using, there used to be a greasemonkey script that did all the HTML codes automatically on Gawker sites. for more info goto lifehacker and search Greasemonkey