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Detroit, 7:39 AM
Tue Nov 24
23 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/08/08
I am going back to Giz now.
11/07/08
Oddly enough, a great many of those people are the ones making the statements that we should just say screw GM and screw this socialist crap. For all the people that fall into this category and get their wish to see GM go down, that's all fine and good, but as soon as they realize that that results in them not having a job, they will complain about the rampant, unchecked capitalism that screwed them.
There is no arguing that GM screwed up in the past decade. There is no arguing that they are continuing to screw up in many ways. But they have also made vast strides. They at last have a range of products that are truly competitive, and those that are not will be soon. They have learned quite a bit from their mistakes; note that the Volt of all things lives. Whether you agree that that is enough progress to justify saving them in a utopian context, the fact remains: this is not a utopian context, and the fact that they have shown any progress whatsoever makes this a whole lot easier to swallow than the bank bailout.
The banks were bailed out because we would have been hosed if they weren't. If GM is bailed out, we are hosed. Does their need to be a stringent set of rules, etc. that apply to the bailout? Absolutely. Do I like the fact that they need to be bailed out in the first place? No.
But life is. And quite frankly, for the lives of millions of people in the US workforce, life would be far worse off without GM in business than we would ever be with GM in business.
And let's not hear comparisons about how well Toyota, Honda, BMW, and other companies are being run, as they are run in countries that have significantly more socialist overtones than the US has ever had. They also don't have to deal with unions.
So there it is. This whole situation sucks. But it will suck a whole lot worse if we don't do anything about it. Time to choose the lesser of two evils and get it over with so we can get ourselves back on track.
11/07/08
Years ago, when I was a student of car design I was thinking about where I wanted to work. Our family had been a GM family. We had Chevy trucks growing up and my dad had (still has) his '67 Camaro. The glamour of the GM design studio in the 50's and 60's had gone away, the dome had burned, and adult logic told me that Detroit was not a secure place to have a career- and this was a decision I reached 12 years ago- at that point, GM was hating it, and had just closed their west coast design studio. Years passed and the re-opened a studio in Burbank, but even that location is sketchy soil. I have friends who lost their digs working for Chrysler out in Carlsbad...I don't do well hunting for jobs, I don't do that sort of thing. Weird times indeed, if GM goes away, the history of the brand is the great loss. The products today would not be a loss.
11/07/08
I agree, the loss of the history would be a much more devastating one than the loss of the new products themselves, but I worry about what will happen if we lose that many jobs.
And I like the way you put: the theory is simple enough (triage), but as GM is the general, the reality is a lot more complicated.
11/07/08
11/07/08
True.
Last time I checked, Toyota, Honda, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz all had a few factories in the United States. Their corporate headquarters, however, are not in the USA. The are in Japan and Germany, meaning that the money that they make goes to those countries, not the USA. Additionally, those companies are not faced with the same difficulties that US automakers face, not the least of which is the UAW.
So instead of giving money away to companies that are going to take that money right out of the US economy and do little to nothing to encourage large-scale job growth in the US, employ only a small fraction of US auto workers, and pad their cushy asses in fancy post-modern chairs, let's give money to companies that are responsible for a significant chunk of our nation's employment and GDP, and whose loss would completely cripple our economy which is already on life-support.
From that standpoint, perhaps we should invest in our own national economy and our own future.
Wow. What a concept.
Wow.
11/07/08
Most people who think that GM going under is a good thing or that it is OK, are saying it out of spite.
11/07/08
I've wondered why everyone was so eager for Poland to have unions but not the US.
Also, Japan and Germany and the UK have their own unions that make the current incarnation of the UAW look pretty anemic.
11/07/08
Corporate automotive masters are in multinational corporations anyway, so this fantasy of calling VAG German, Honda Japanese or GM American is specious. I am so tired of that nationalistic crap. The FACT is that this is an inevitable result of globalization of trade, when more manufacturers exist than can be borne by the marketplace.
Let them hang, other manufacturers will take their place. And there NEVER was any reason for a line worker to be making as much money as a college educated, degreed professional, i.e.; let the Unions face up to what they did to the economy. Why the hell should non-auto states be taxed to prop up failing enterprises in Michigan. Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit. This is what made the USSR fail.
If anyone REALLY cars about jobs, the economy, and the future, they will be thinking in an entirely NEW direction.
It's time for the government to make energy production a monopoly, then start a CCC style capitalization of construction on nuclear, deep hydrothermal, tides, and biodiesel projects in BLS lands. the profit on these things could be used to finance public expenditures, instead of regressive taxation, and only those who used energy would pay the price.
BUT NO!!!!!
Let's just keep out little ostrich heads covered, and retreat to failed liberal policies of the past. because Jimmy Carter was so successful, you know? Pffffttt..
11/07/08
I didn't know that Japan and Europe faced the same severe issues with unions that the US did. I stand corrected on that one.
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11/07/08
See how fast they jump at that.
11/07/08
GM is like the cool uncle you had when you were growing up. He'd take you shooting or camping, and he had a stash of girlie mags at his house that he conveniently "never noticed" you rummaging through.
Then he started hitting the bottle. He lost his job and his house, moved into a ratty apartment and started creeping everyone out. Despite interventions by friends and family, he never listened.
Then one day he went into the hospital for liver failure. They kept him going on machines for years and years, but everyone was just so emotionally spent over the whole predictable thing, we just couldn't muster any real sadness.
So when he dies, the whole funeral will be much more matter-of-fact than tear-jerking. We're all related to the uncle, but we've all seen it coming for a very long time, and we all know it's of his own design.
11/07/08
Yup, that pretty much sums it up perfectly... but I refuse to nominate it for a COTD. You've had enough, let the other kids have a turn.
But you'll always be the COTD in my heart, Ash.
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11/07/08
Yup. Need decaf.
11/07/08
11/07/08
I hear the Irvine family has some cash to burn.. what the hell..
And just to screw everyone up, change the official press release language to acadian.. it'd make no difference. although i don't know if anyone out east bothered to record their langauge in a book?
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Guess not now.
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11/07/08
Gov't: "Apologize for all the crap rental lot Malibu's and constantly teasing the new Camaro, then we'll talk money."
/if only
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11/07/08
Hmmmm
Gm is doing badly? I cant imagine why?
Who wouldnt want to buy a vehicle from a company like GM? I cant imagine.
And to think I thought they were going green.
Turning off the escalators, cannceling phone lines...
Then again..
This is a company whose CEO is getting 15figs for running the company into the ground..
Not having flexible manufacturing
Not planning for years ahead..
And just basically treating GM like a red headed step child.
And to think I was waiting for groundbreaking / insano news.
No news on Chrysler..
No more news on what is being canned..
Just more of the same.
Lengthier product plans
Less attention to turn over
Less attention to detail..
And dont forget screw ya suppliers..
Im surprised I havent heard of reports of payments going into the 90 and 180 day schedules..
Bastards.
11/07/08