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Bentoboxx, My Tank is full of it
06/28/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
We looked for a $500 Z and couldn't find one that wasn't a complete basketcase which is why we went with the $233 BMW 633CSI instead.
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Paul Y. don't drive too fast.
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
This is clearly a Communist plot. Your commie has no regard for human life.
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P161911 probably shoudn't have
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
My own personal experience with Z cars was when some 18 year old kid ran me off the road while he was driving a 280ZX. The early Z cars are basically too expensive to run at LeMons. Anything at LeMons will probably have been passed over for a parts car by a more serious race team. The ZX ones on the other hand have usually gone through a succession of mulleted, under 25, hoons by this point. The owners of these cars were looking for a "sports car" alternative to a Camaro and couldn't afford a Vette. Seeing as how a ZX is much more complicated than a similar vintage Z-28 the ZXs at the $500 level haven't fared too well. The one that hit me was doing about 80mph in a 45mph zone with his right side wheels on the center-line. The guy had just gotten it back on the road. It might be available in some junkyard still (7 years later), the most serious damage was where the rear bumper on my K-5 Blazer opened up the side of his car like a can opener.

I see junk ZXs at the pull-a-part yards fairly regularly, the only time I have seen an early Z was at the scrap metal yard. A serious SOLO racer had junked an old race car body.
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Novaload
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
Any $500 Z has been beaten to death and cheating does the rest. Doomed as doomed can be, to quote Ed Grimley.
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f86sabre
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
Thrashedness. We tried to make one good LeMons racer out of two mid 80's Zs and realized half way through the build that it wasn't going to happen. Most every part on both cars was at the ragged end of useful life. We traded the glamor of Japanese performance and classic style for a lowly Escort.
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Murilee Martin
06/27/09

@f86sabre: The Escort is actually an excellent choice for a team hoping to maximize racing time and maybe contend. Very few Escorts blow up at LeMons, and they're pretty quick.
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something_unique_and_descriptive
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
The only Z I've seen for $500 didn't have an engine, so I can only imagine how trashed one would have to be to be down in LeMons price range and "running".
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Murilee Martin
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
I probably should have added "Overstressed cheater engines that blow up after 3 hours" to the list, since I'm pretty sure that's also a major factor. Small-block Chevy teams might learn something from that as well.
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Novaload
06/27/09

@Murilee Martin: Hah! The real answer appears!
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eggwich del fiero
06/27/09

@Murilee Martin: This brings up a question I have about LeMons races, and one I could easily answer myself by actually attending a race: since many of these cars are in precarious situations, mechanically, it seems that driving them balls-out race style would definitely result in serious malfunction. Since this is an endurance race, does anyone drive less aggro, with maybe just one ball out, thus ensuring that they complete more than ten laps?, or does driving at less than optimal speed result in too much clogging-of-the-track and hatred and venom spewed from your competitors and the judges?
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Xargs: LeMonaider
06/27/09

@eggwich del fiero: Nope, for the vast majority of LeMons racers, it's pedal to the floor at every opportunity; hence the multiple failures every race.

You blow it up/break it and make it better for the next race, and eventually you have a crapbox that can finish.

Sandbaggers get punished, but I think that most of the LeMons racers aren't that 'strategic' anyway. It's a race for $500 cars, for F* sake.
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Murilee Martin
06/28/09

@eggwich del fiero: Everyone is beating on their cars pretty hard the whole time. The difference between the super-aggro drivers and the saner ones is their criteria for what constitutes a valid passing opportunity. The former tend to hit more stuff than the latter, but both beat the crap out of their cars' mechanicals.
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that ain't the way to have fun, son
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
Actually, I think this indicates exceptional overall build quality, as there isn't a specific failure. Hence, the team must be experts, or damned creative, in every system, sub-system, and part.
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

@diesel W123's don't die: By any-part-can-spontaneously-fail standards, you could be discussing British Leyland.
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that ain't the way to have fun, son
06/27/09

@FP - tittin' and shittin' with Tomsk: Okay, okay...I wasn't specific enough. It's still early for the weekend, and I was studying a solid 12 hours for the MCSE, yesterday...um, excluding the time used to read/post, here, of course.

Shhhh!

The entire car is put together/engineered well enough so that seemingly random parts fail due to what most consider excessive age/use/abuse. There's no telling how the vehicle was treated in it's history.

British Leyland...when the whole car sucks you have, well the GM J-car. Random part failure while still in the new car section of the car park is different.
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Xargs: LeMonaider
06/27/09

@diesel W123's don't die: Hey! Our J-car is a shining example of suck! It's had the crap beaten out of it, especially in those early Altamont races, and it's been quite good...
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
2, 7, and 8. Up here in Rust Country, mostly #2.
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wrx-tyrannosaurusWrx
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
I could be the $500 Nissan part...it could just be the "Nissan" part though...

BA-ZING! Who saw that coming?! NOBODY! YES! HILARIOUS!
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Alexander Card
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
god's wrath from it's status as the pedophile sports car of choice for 10 generations.
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Murilee Martin
06/27/09

@Alexander Card: Hmmm... come to think of it, the altar-boy-diddlin' priest in my neighborhood drove a 280Z. He was a young, hip-type priest... and now he's cost the diocese enough lawsuit money to buy many, many new Nissans.
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

@Murilee Martin: Hip-type... and ass-type, and twig-and-berries type (but apparently not stick-and-balls)...
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smalleyxb122
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
I really wanted to vote for the inherent badness of all Nissans, but my Maxima ownership should not be enough for me to condemn the entire make. That, and I really want a Z someday (either a late 280 in all of it's malaisey goodness, or a Z32), so I refuse to believe that they all suck.
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CJinSD
06/27/09

@smalleyxb122:

Having worked as a service adviser in recent years, I'd be amazed if Dan Gurney and AJ Foyt could take a showroom fresh Nissan and win a 24 hour race against a Volvo 140 driven by 9 year olds.
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

@CJinSD: You, sir, are awesome.
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dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!
06/27/09

@smalleyxb122: I love my z32, cheap to buy, EXPENSIVE to own. There's always something more you want to buy for it. Still, nothing like cruising with the t-tops off down by the beach or racing it through the mountain twisties. Be aware, it is basically the same engine as in the Maxima (NA is a bit more hp, turbo a lot more). That engine has a way of loosening all it's hose clamps. Yes I blew the engine on mine racing it. It's got a new one now (and my wallet is $4k lighter).
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A strolling player
06/27/09

@dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!: We didn't really think about operating costs when my friend bought his $3200 Z32 a couple months ago. A couple weeks and the head gasket's gone. When he gets back in town we're gonna see if we can outsource some funding from Indonesia, which isn't what it sounds like.
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Alfisted
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
I wouldn't attribute it to years of abuse - I doubt they're any more abused than other relics that have run successfully at LeMons. In the case of ZX's, perhaps all those years in the secretarial pool have made them complacent.
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

@Alfisted: Oh, come on. My grandfather's former secretary only had three!
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A strolling player
06/27/09

@Alfisted: Well, I don't know, I don't think Cajun Jihad's Mitsubishi Mirage automatic was necessarily abused.
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Maymar
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
If I had to wager a guess, it'd be that the earlier Zs are just a little too expensive to find a competetive one, and the later Zs are a little too bloated and complex.

But clearly, on account of the flouridation conspiracy, Zs know we sense their power, and seek their racing essence. They do not avoid us. But they do deny us their essence.
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HenriPro
06/27/09

In reply to Why Don't Datsun Zs Dominate The 24 Hours Of LeMons?
Its simple $500 dollar zs are ether complete crap or worth saving. But someone go race some 510s.
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AlienProbe
06/27/09

@HenriPro:

Your internet grammar makes me cry.
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

@AlienProbe: It's his suggestion that we destroy perfectly restorable 510s that upsets me.
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Alfisted
06/27/09

@FP - tittin' and shittin' with Tomsk: Bingo. Felt the same way about the Capri that ran a few weeks back. If I could find one in decent shape, my friends and neighbors would have a new reason to laugh at me.
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HenriPro
06/27/09

@FP - tittin' and shittin' with Tomsk: Did I say to start with restorable ones...@skitter: Hail Murilee Hail Murilee Hail Murilee Hail Murilee Hail Murilee, there didnt even copy+paste .
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MushyHeirloom
06/27/09

@HenriPro: This is acceptable. You are now free.
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A strolling player
06/27/09

@HenriPro: Oh, no, we need the full prayer.

Hail Murilee, full of race, the Ford is with thee; blessed art thou amongst minxes, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, DOTS.

Holy Murilee, Mother of PCH, pray for us Jalops, now and at the blowing of our head gaskets. Amen.
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Armand
06/27/09

@Alfisted: The Capri that ran at Reno was, and I say this with great affection for the car and its builders/drivers, a piece of crap. They weren't killing it by taking it to LeMons; if anything, they were commuting its death sentence and allowing it to go out in a blaze of glory.

Racing in LeMons doesn't necessarily mean a car will be destroyed (although in some cases, it probably should.) Any of the neat cars that you'll see at LeMons (like my buddy's Porsche 914) would otherwise have been parts cars or crusher fodder. A racing series developed specifically for shitty cars gives them a new lease on life. I say bring on the (rusty, gutted) LeMons 510s!
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theeastbaykid
06/28/09

There's a 510 registered for LeMons New England (of all places) coming up the second weekend of July. Get your tetanus shots now.
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