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Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
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sos10
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
It sounds all very promising, the only problem will be the price, especially if some foreign brand van introduce the same kind of car for half the price.
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Chuckie_A
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Why do you need an engine of even 1.4l just to power a generator? Is it a parts bin item?
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@Chuckie_A: It is a parts bin item, it'll be largely common with the chevy cruze, though the cruze will be a turbo version.
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felis_concolor
05/19/09

@Chuckie_A: For a series hybrid, the ideal power plant would precisely provide the mean power required over the entire trip - including periods where the vehicle was not being driven at all - and be set to run at WOT (its most efficient operating mode) to charge up the battery bank with programming that would recognize a basic start-stop "top-off" mode for in-city driving versus an "oh $#!+, we need to pour power back into the system now; we're going to be at freeway speeds for some time" highway mode. If the system were perfectly prescient you might well get away with a smaller capacity engine for the electrical generator, and for a commuter car which spends more time parking than moving around under its own power, the generator can recharge the system even while parked, which would reduce average power requirements even more. Compared to many compact car engines of the 70s and 80s, 1.4L is not especially tiny, but today's cars are bloated porkers in comparison, with a "compact" car often carrying as much weight as a late-70s G or Fox body. In this market, a 1.4L engine is a small fry; even Toyota's tiny Yaris and Honda's Fit sport larger ICEs under their hoods. I'll assume the engine is of higher displacement than might be absolutely, perfectly necessary in order to provide a comfortable margin over mean power requirements for extended highway cruising.

Ben, that has me wondering if the engine was cycling at all during your test drive - and what were your impressions of it? I've felt the parallel hybrid systems were created specifically to be familiar to drivers who want to hear an engine spin up when they push the go-pedal, versus the "out of my hands" cycling of an independently controlled recharging system for the linear hybrid layout.
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@felis_concolor: The system was well within it's 40 mile range, there was no engine cycling for this drive.

And you aren't exactly correct on your assumptions on the way the generator works. It does not run at steady state and charge the batteries. In fact, once the batteries are depleted the engine doesn't charge them at all, it powers the motor and nothing more, responding to energy demands by revving up or down to meet the required load. The idea is to arrive home with an empty battery to take advantage of the cheapest possible energy source. Since electricity is so cheap compared to gas, using the generator to charge the batteries is a waste.
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Mike Delozier
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Kinda sounds like the review that Jeremy Clarkson just did for the Honda Insight, but he ripped that car to shreds.. even more so than the Chrysler Sebring.

I don't think the auto companies are doing too much R&D on these cars, just put a basic concept together and rush it to market.
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@Mike Delozier: On the contrary, that it is unremarkable is a testament to the amount of engineering they've put into it. Drive a Prius or an Insight around and it's a terrible, terrible car. The Volt mule here is just a normal, every day car with a very extraordinary drive train.
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GV_Goat
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
So... how many miles can you travel on a gallon of fuel?AND... wouldn't it be cool if the generator was a diesel???
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Mad_Science
05/19/09

@GV_Goat: Re: Diesel, yes. One of the advantages of this platform is that over time they can swap in different generator powerplants (or just more batteries) as needed.

I'd say they probably didn't go diesel as it's still not as widely accepted in the US. They want to minimize the wierdness of this car to the general consumer.

I believe it gets ~45mpg when running on generator power.
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robai
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Hey, this is a nice big leap backwards from the EV-1's that GM destroyed a few years ago.

[en.wikipedia.org]
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Mad_Science
05/19/09

@robai: In terms of range, utility, price and acceptability you are wrong.
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ssurfer321
05/19/09

@robai: Do yourself a favor and watch this.

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Mad_Science
05/19/09

@ssurfer321: You did notice he linked to it already, right?

@robai: So, we're talking about the aesthetics of a Volt/Cruze mule versus a mid-90s science project?
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@robai: Arg, nobody "killed" the EV1, see my comment above. And this is a much, much, much more advanced vehicle than the EV1.
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@ssurfer321: Even the subtitle is idiotic on that picture.
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PowerTryp, Starless wonder.
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
But the real question is, will they recall all of them and crush them? cause if so then shame. If only people had listened in the mid 90's to the EV-1 and Ford's electric Ranger.
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@PowerTryp: sigh. the EV1 was not recalled. It was a leased vehicle with a limited field life. that was always the plan. GM did it to collect usage data for the next generation of the car... the Volt. They were crushed because leaving them in the field would have put GM at a tremendous liability risk.
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Karsten Von Urea for All Sales Event
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Chevy Volt

More 'Merkin
Less Smug

This means I'm allowed to like it.
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bygeorge
05/19/09

@Karsten Von Tide of Man-stein:

"mer·kin (mûrkn) n.: (first use, according to the OED, 1617) a pubic wig, originally worn by prostitutes after shaving their genitalia to eliminate lice or disguise the marks of syphilis. "

Yup, that sounds about right...
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MushyHeirloom
05/19/09

@bygeorge: I thought that too. Hearted.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
What happened to the edgy look?

It gets more blah everytime I see it.

That being said, I hope this works, because if they put a Cadddy body on this chassis, I would buy one.
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robot-shmobot
05/19/09

@leavethegun-takethecannoli: That's because the put the Volt drive train in a 'mule'. A test car, per say. It's the body of a Chevy Cruze.
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Mad_Science
05/19/09

@leavethegun-takethecannoli: Reading comprehension fail.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
05/19/09

@robot-shmobot: So they're going to go back to the "Volt" body style?

Very cool then.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
05/19/09

@Mad_Science: Totally.

I just glanced right over the "volt-in-a-chevy-cruze" line.
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Mad_Science
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Good.

GM gets (somewhat legitimate) green cred and props from the Feds their beholden to.

All those people out there driving appliance cars that get ~30mpg can start driving these (or their competition) and get the equivalent of 50mpg or more.

Less fuel consumption and emissions from the masses opens things up for the enthusiasts. Fuel prices will go down as demand decreases.

As the air gets cleaner, people will be less stressed about whatever emissions are coming from assorted classics, sports cars or 4x4s driven the 5-10% of the population 10-20% of the time.
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Jeb_Hoge
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
I think this exactly hits the target that GM needs to hit.
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Joe-Btfsplk
05/19/09

@Jeb_Hoge:
You mean the bottom of the canyon.... after they go over the cliff? They will never make a dime on this POS. Diesel is the way.
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@Joe-Btfsplk: Not the way the government is regulating it. The 2010 emissions regs for diesels are damn near insane. The tech to make them clean is very expensive and americans still haven't bought into diesel. the voltec system is a good solution which is incredibly flexible in it's fuel source.
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Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Ok, so they hit the target. Let's hope they target a sporty and fun coupe sometime in the not too distant future.
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Brimful of Ash on the 78
05/19/09

@Tiberiuswise: IIRC, the Volt platform was supposed to be easily scaled to a lot of different vehicles (I seem to remember a rolling chassis that could be used for almost anything). So I'd expect a small SUV and sports car to show up pretty soon, spread the costs around, hopefully net the General a profit on the line.
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aSoundofSleep-less nights
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Whenever I hear the words "appliance-like" to describe a car I imagine a microwave in the glove-box, a blender in the armrest, and a vibrator mounted in a trap door in the passenger seat for the Misses.
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A strolling player
05/19/09

@aSoundofSleep: See, no, that would be awesome.
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Flathead Smith
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
I asked this question sort of yesterday. What happens with those Lithium batteries when this thing gets in a bad wreck and those batteries have an internal short? Regular lead acid batteries can be very dangerous in a situation like that. It is my understanding that Lithium batteries can be even more destructive. I guess we will let the lawyers decide that when the first person survives the wreck, but not the batteries.
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Ben Wojdyla
05/19/09

@Flathead Smith: They're actually pretty inert. You can drive a nail through them and nothing terrible happens.
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dataPOG
05/19/09

@Flathead Smith: if it is dry there should be no problem.

If it is raining, I wouldn't want to be near it as there is a chance of a boom....
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Mad_Science
05/19/09

@dataPOG: Water is not an issue.

General wetness is too resistive to be a problem.

@Flathead Smith: I dunno, but they managed to work out that whole 10-30 gallons of highly volatile and flammable liquid gasoline issue.
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A strolling player
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
There's something wickedly cool about surging acceleration with no roar to back it up. I ran out of gas in my car once and, while I had a bit of a freak-out (they don't exactly ease you into it: you get the Red Triange of Death along with an empty (no dots at all) fuel gauge and a screen that just says "Problem"), I had a fun little drive to the gas station about half a mile away.

So the Volt was pretty much what it's supposed to be. No surprise there. It's still a really rad system, something that could sensibly see common use not far in the future. Not that many people drive more than forty miles in a day, after all, and this car gives them the choice to do either.
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MustangMike
05/19/09

@A stʁolling playeʁ: Is this wickedly cool like getting caught by your girlfriend with her mom, or wickedly cool like finding a $20 in your coat pocket from last year?
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A strolling player
05/19/09

@MustangMike: More like getting absurdly drunk, blacking out, and waking up the next morning in Prague. No idea how you got there, but hey, you're in Prague!
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Dhillaz 2.0
05/19/09

@MustangMike:
"There's something wickedly cool about surging acceleration with no roar to back it up."

Or wickedly cool like sneaking up on kids and running them over.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
05/19/09

@A stʁolling playeʁ: Congrats on the COTD.

I would think the acceleration would be better. It is fairly torquey, no?
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Paul Y. don't drive too fast.
05/19/09

@A stʁolling playeʁ: I think that just means it's time to go looking for a Tatra hell project when that happens.
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pj134
05/19/09

@Dhillaz: they need a vette volt, so you can roll up on the kids in silent electric mode, then rev the mother up to red line right behind em with open headers on it... that would be glorious.
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HurtsSoGood
05/19/09

@pj134: But it wouldn't do that. It would just go, silently. The gas engine would kick in, and charge the system, but it would also work at peak efficiency, which one only hopes is also fairly quiet. It would not, however, go to the red line.
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Joe-Btfsplk
05/19/09

@A stʁolling playeʁ:
$35,000 POS.
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A strolling player
05/19/09

@Joe-Btfsplk: Thank you for a useful and enlightening comment.
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Brimful of Ash on the 78
05/19/09

In reply to Chevy Volt Mule: First Drive
Good stuff. I hope it's got the goods on the consumer end of things, since Toyota's been doing the "eco" branding thing for a decade now. GM has some catching up to do, but this might well do it.

There are no more large elephants in the room, only hundreds of small ones

I love seeing cynical Germans tweak English idioms.
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combat chuck
05/19/09

@Ash78: Is this what he's talking about?

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