Truly budget minded new car shoppers don't buy Hybrids anyway.
If someone wants to be noticed, they'll buy an Insight or Prius. If they want a fancy comfy car they can say is also a Hybrid, they'll buy hybrid versions of Fusion or Camry.
Most buyers on the proverbial hybrid 'fence' would be less alienated by the Fusion.
Wes, from what I read, I am assuming that you would recommend a standard (non hybrid) Fusion over all 3 of the hybrid options?
I would have to say that option seems the most reasonable so I am curious as to what you think, considering you've driven all of the hybrids back to back.
@Big Red: I really like the bargain basement fusion with the 2.5 and the manual. If you're going to go ahead and get leather and an auto, you might as well get the hybrid.
Wes, in terms of driving dynamics, would you say the new Prius is:
much better
slightly better
about the same
slightly worse
much worse
than the New Insight?
From reading the Prius review I guess it is slightly better, but if the Prius corners better, brakes more responsively and better, and dives and leans less, then the Prius will be a real winner compared to the Honda.
I'm not trying to defend the Insight, but comparing it to a car that costs almost $11,000 more doesn't really seem like a fair fight. I think you guys also missed an opportunity to compare the utility - the Insight's hatchback makes it (in my mind) a little more useful than an ordinary sedan.
All that said, it's pretty clear the winner of the hybrid wars, at least for now, is still the Prius. And for small, functional, high MPG cars the Honda Fit seems to still be ahead in the reviews. Honda just blew it with the Insight.
@weatherman: We talk about utility under Interior Design. I typically prefer hatches to sedans, but the Insight's rear cargo compartment is so small and awkwardly shaped (look how steeply the rear slopes) that the utility just isn't there.
Why the heck would a CVT have paddles? It doesn't have anything to shift?
The review was pretty good, but I don't understand why the Fusion only got two starts for value. It offers an entirely practical car, with real headroom, legroom, and trunk space, great fuel mileage, for only a few thousand more than the Insight, and frankly, the glowing reviews you guys gave on every aspect of the Fusion doesn't reflect in the value portion. I just don't get it. If it does everything better than the Insight, AND offers usable space, isn't the value higher, even given the greater pricetag?
@godspunk32: A CVT can "fake" a conventional transimission by allowing the driver to use the paddles to jump from one ratio to another. I guess the number of "gears" you get is just a matter of software...
Probably the worst automotive comparison I've read in a long time. Like mentioned above, the only thing similar about these two cars is the fact that they are a hybrid. The entire point of the insight is to make the "peoples hybrid" and to make it affordable, of course it isn't going to stack up against a car that costs 8,000 more then it, especially when we are talking about a sub 20,000 car. For those wondering if Ford is climbing and Honda is falling, don't look to this article for that answer.
@Ben Wojdyla: In a lot of ways, that's a more valid comparison than this was. I'd say there are a few people who'd consider both...or at least look to comparison like that to see if the H3 had any credibility at all.
Maybe I'm just not the target market, but I see the Insight more like the previous-gen or even 1st-gen Prius: a small, awkward dorkmobile.
The Fusion is more like the Camry or Accord hybrids: a regular car with a premium and a mileage boost.
I'd say Fusion Vs Prius and Insight Vs Jetta TDI would be more apt.
@Wes Siler: I'm pretty sure comparing hybrids solely because they're hybrids is more literal than finding cars that represent an interesting comparison.
I guess I come to Jalopnik expecting a level of sophistication in coverage going beyond what "captures the public's imagination".
Wow, Honda just can't seem to market this drivetrain. The 2-seater Insight was too small. The Accord Hybrid was too expensive. The Civic Hybrid was invisible (and a horribly slow). And now Honda's made a car that can't outdo the Fit on price/mileage/practicality/fun. It's also ugly.
Maybe it should be: Honda Insight vs. 1992 Honda Civic VX hatch.
I don't like the jellybean hybrids, but I only like the Fusion's "style" insofar as it's not offensive and doesn't suck. But it also doesn't stand out, either.
I wonder if the hybrid fanbase is maturing to the point where they don't need to call attention to themselves. The aero shape does help with Cd, but not much more than what can be accomplished in a standard sedan or wagon shape.
@docrice: If the quality of the Battery pack is anything like Toyota's, than rest assured nothing will happen. Something vastly superior? The hybrid already is vastly superior in that sense.
@leavethegun-takethecannoli: Plus, they're comparing one of the best-reviewed Fords with one of the worse-reviewed Hondas. It doesn't necessarily carry over to the whole brand line up.
@MrBangBam: So then Toyota is based in the United States? When did that heppen?
No, they are not. the money goes to assist and fund a company based in another country, that does their research and development, testing, and primary concerns in another country.
Buy a camery if you want. with family working in american manufacturing, I would not send money to a foreign manufacturer when I have a choice otherwise.
how can you be more american made when you are owned by a japan manufacture, with half of the engines being made in japan, and half of the transmissions being made in japan?
@zeeboid: Cars.com isn't wrong according to the NYtimes article. NYtimes doesn't provide a percentage of the parts are made here or made in Japan, it just states the locations, which Cars.com does get right.
Furthermore, you can't be serious about your belief that American manufacturers should be more American-made than other manufacturers. Ford, GM and Chrysler outsource much of their work to other countries too.
I just wanted to point out that the world's getting much more complex and globalized, and money no longer flows in the ways that we thought it did.
@zeeboid: They're not arguing with that, they're arguing the point that if you're trying not to send your money abroad, there's a decent case for buying from a "foreign" manufacturer.
Keep in mind, many import companies now have US design centers, as many offer US-specific (usually bigger) models.
In general, I agree with you that most of the imports still have a corporate function to aggregate wealth back home.
But, if you're concerned about American manufacturing, I'd really argue it's a tossup.
Granted, the number of hybrids is somewhat limited, but comparing a $34k car to a $23k car is not exactly fair. How about a Sebring versus a G37 while you're at it?
@Colonel35: I think you'd be surprised by the amount of people that cross shop these two cars. Sure, the Insight is cheaper, but for an upper middle-class family shopping for image as much as price that's less important than you might think.
We're not saying price doesn't come into it, and you can see that in the "Value" section.
07/02/09
If someone wants to be noticed, they'll buy an Insight or Prius. If they want a fancy comfy car they can say is also a Hybrid, they'll buy hybrid versions of Fusion or Camry.
Most buyers on the proverbial hybrid 'fence' would be less alienated by the Fusion.
07/01/09
I would have to say that option seems the most reasonable so I am curious as to what you think, considering you've driven all of the hybrids back to back.
07/01/09
07/01/09
much better
slightly better
about the same
slightly worse
much worse
than the New Insight?
From reading the Prius review I guess it is slightly better, but if the Prius corners better, brakes more responsively and better, and dives and leans less, then the Prius will be a real winner compared to the Honda.
07/01/09
07/01/09
Otherwise civilised people with something to prove: Prius, Fusion.
Masochists with deep-seated self-loathing, but who still maintain the usual desire to be accepted: Insight
Your grandmother: Corolla
07/01/09
All that said, it's pretty clear the winner of the hybrid wars, at least for now, is still the Prius. And for small, functional, high MPG cars the Honda Fit seems to still be ahead in the reviews. Honda just blew it with the Insight.
07/01/09
07/01/09
The review was pretty good, but I don't understand why the Fusion only got two starts for value. It offers an entirely practical car, with real headroom, legroom, and trunk space, great fuel mileage, for only a few thousand more than the Insight, and frankly, the glowing reviews you guys gave on every aspect of the Fusion doesn't reflect in the value portion. I just don't get it. If it does everything better than the Insight, AND offers usable space, isn't the value higher, even given the greater pricetag?
07/01/09
07/01/09
Kind of like comparing a Jetta TDI to a Ram Cummins just because their both diesel.
07/01/09
Probably the worst automotive comparison I've read in a long time. Like mentioned above, the only thing similar about these two cars is the fact that they are a hybrid. The entire point of the insight is to make the "peoples hybrid" and to make it affordable, of course it isn't going to stack up against a car that costs 8,000 more then it, especially when we are talking about a sub 20,000 car. For those wondering if Ford is climbing and Honda is falling, don't look to this article for that answer.
07/01/09
07/01/09
Maybe I'm just not the target market, but I see the Insight more like the previous-gen or even 1st-gen Prius: a small, awkward dorkmobile.
The Fusion is more like the Camry or Accord hybrids: a regular car with a premium and a mileage boost.
I'd say Fusion Vs Prius and Insight Vs Jetta TDI would be more apt.
07/01/09
07/01/09
I guess I come to Jalopnik expecting a level of sophistication in coverage going beyond what "captures the public's imagination".
07/01/09
Maybe it should be: Honda Insight vs. 1992 Honda Civic VX hatch.
07/01/09
I wonder if the hybrid fanbase is maturing to the point where they don't need to call attention to themselves. The aero shape does help with Cd, but not much more than what can be accomplished in a standard sedan or wagon shape.
07/01/09
No, but you will get that price difference back when you resell your car.. especially if gas becomes more expensive.
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
It looks great, has some pep, and the toys are very cool.
Would throwing 26s on it defeat the purpose?
07/01/09
In terms of hybrids in general, I think the Jalop stance is "Where's my diesel?" Idk, I don't think I'm a true Jalop yet :'(.
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
[www.autoblog.com]
07/01/09
No, they are not. the money goes to assist and fund a company based in another country, that does their research and development, testing, and primary concerns in another country.
Buy a camery if you want. with family working in american manufacturing, I would not send money to a foreign manufacturer when I have a choice otherwise.
07/01/09
[www.nytimes.com]
though i hate to have to go to the NYT for that.
how can you be more american made when you are owned by a japan manufacture, with half of the engines being made in japan, and half of the transmissions being made in japan?
you can't be.
07/01/09
Furthermore, you can't be serious about your belief that American manufacturers should be more American-made than other manufacturers. Ford, GM and Chrysler outsource much of their work to other countries too.
I just wanted to point out that the world's getting much more complex and globalized, and money no longer flows in the ways that we thought it did.
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
Sorryy, I'm just not a fan of sending our money overseas.
07/01/09
Keep in mind, many import companies now have US design centers, as many offer US-specific (usually bigger) models.
In general, I agree with you that most of the imports still have a corporate function to aggregate wealth back home.
But, if you're concerned about American manufacturing, I'd really argue it's a tossup.
07/01/09
07/01/09
We're not saying price doesn't come into it, and you can see that in the "Value" section.