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Detroit, 10:22 AM
Sun Nov 29
8 posts in the last 24 hours

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  • posts about #2009iqs more →

    Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Seems to me that "Lexus Tops Survey, Porsche and Cadillac Close Behind" would be a more fair assessment, given the small difference between 90 and 91 (and the larger gap from 84 to 90).
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Apparently they're actually "Stupid". Or "stupid", since they don't like being capitalised.
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of CanadaCraig CanadaCraig
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    I'm a little bit confused. And who knows - maybe I'm doing the 'math' wrong. But as far as MY calculations are concerned the 'Industry Average' is closer to 117 than it is to 108. [116.81 to be - almost - exact] Hmmm.....
     Reply
    CanadaCraig was starred CanadaCraig was unstarred
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    06/22/09

    @CanadaCraig: Perhaps it's number of cars, rather than of manufacturers?
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    The only actual surprises here are Mini (come on, guys) and VW (who have fine initial quality, it's just a few years down the road...)
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of PowerTryp, Starless wonder. PowerTryp, Starless wonder.
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Please people, keep in mind this is initial quality.


    Also this is problems per 100 vehicles, you could just get 5-6 more good ones than the next guy and not have a true indicative number. Especially when almost all of those brands sell in the hundreds of thousands.

     Reply
    PowerTryp, Starless wonder. was starred PowerTryp, Starless wonder. was unstarred
    Image of brandegee brandegee
    06/22/09

    @PowerTryp: True. A Dodge Aspen would get a dreadful initial quality score, but would ace the reliability/longevity and cost of ownership battle.
     Reply
    brandegee was starred brandegee was unstarred
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    06/22/09

    @brandegee: What? Those things rusted on the dealer's lot. Outside of that, though, you're right.
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of dmdukejr dmdukejr
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Question: is this the same survey that doesn't weigh the severity of the "quality" complaint? In other words, is "the cupholder isn't quite flush with the console lid when it's shut" counted the same as "the engine literally fell out of the car at 65 mph and I ran it over with my boat?"
     Reply
    dmdukejr was starred dmdukejr was unstarred
    Image of Maymar Maymar
    06/22/09

    @dmdukejr: As I recall, Hummer got heavily dinged because H2 owners were unimpressed with its poor fuel economy.
     Reply
    Maymar was starred Maymar was unstarred
    Image of Alphamazing Alphamazing
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    "Even in the face of unprecedented challenges, the Detroit automakers are keeping their focus on designing and building high-quality vehicles, which is a precondition for long-term success," said David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power and Associates. "High quality generally translates into reduced re-engineering costs and lower warranty expenses during a vehicle's life cycle. High quality also enhances an automaker's reputation for reliability, which is a critical purchase consideration for many consumers."


    If that's true, then Mercedes would be as reliable as Toyota. It's a shame Mercedes stopped overengineering their cars the way they used to. MBs used to be tanks. Now, horribly unreliable.

     Reply
    Alphamazing was starred Alphamazing was unstarred
    Image of .357 .357
    06/22/09

    @Alphamazing: That's actually not true. Over the last few years, MB has been starting to get back on top of it's game. Most post 06 MY cars are actually pretty reliable.
     Reply
    .357 was starred .357 was unstarred
    Image of leavethegun-takethecannoli leavethegun-takethecannoli
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Yet I've heard so many people say they have had problems with their Cayennes.
     Reply
    leavethegun-takethecannoli was starred leavethegun-takethecannoli was unstarred
    Image of .357 .357
    06/22/09

    @leavethegun-takethecannoli: Those aren't Porsches. And, no offense to who you're talking too, but the buyer demographic doesn't always include the people who take the best care of their cars.
     Reply
    .357 was starred .357 was unstarred
    Image of Ileee Ileee
    06/22/09

    @leavethegun-takethecannoli: Anyone that buys a Cayenne has a problem.
     Reply
    Ileee was starred Ileee was unstarred
    Image of brandegee brandegee
    06/22/09

    @Ileee: Now that's a statistic I can believe.
     Reply
    brandegee was starred brandegee was unstarred
    Image of beercheck beercheck
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Suzuki's showing pleases me.


    Smart's pleases me even more.

     Reply
    beercheck was starred beercheck was unstarred
    Image of Jagvar Jagvar
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Damnit Jaguar, even without British Leyland, you're still doing it wrong. Lowest-ranking luxury brand on the list.


    *sigh*

     Reply
    Jagvar was starred Jagvar was unstarred
    Image of brandegee brandegee
    06/22/09

    @Jagvar: What's interesting are the full-page ads in NYTimes car section specifically touting the reliability of Jaguars.
     Reply
    brandegee was starred brandegee was unstarred
    Image of snapoversteer 'bout to get told snapoversteer 'bout to get told
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Anyone have any info on how J.D. Power's initial quality survey correlates to lifetime cost of ownership? My impression is that this is the least meaningful measure of reliability available.
     Reply
    snapoversteer 'bout to get told was starred snapoversteer 'bout to get told was unstarred
    Image of Hello Mister Walrus Hello Mister Walrus
    06/22/09

    @snapoversteer: Almost all new vehicles are still under warranty for the first 90 days, so all the problems above should be costless (other than the hassle of bringing them in for repairs). Long term reliability is a different matter. Also, different car brands have different repair costs; for instance, BMW maintenance is much more expensive than Honda maintenance.
     Reply
    Hello Mister Walrus was starred Hello Mister Walrus was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    06/22/09

    @snapoversteer: You're right. The IQS is the least meaningful. JD Power has a long term reliability (3 years, IIRC) metric that is more meaningful.
     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of B1663R B1663R
    06/22/09

    @Hello Mister Walrus: BMW maintenance is included with the purchase of the car for the first 4 years or whatever miles the warranty covers. same with Vdub.


    @snapoversteer: as for reliability ratings, just buy a car and get over it, it'll need fixing sooner or later regardless.


    consumer reports says mini's are very reliable and JD power says that they are shit so auto journalists don't have a clue either, you will go mad trying to figure out what car to buy based on reliability.


    my advice is to pick something with either cheap parts of something you can fix yourself really easily or both...

     Reply
    B1663R was starred B1663R was unstarred
    Image of SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R)
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    I assume they must weight by sales volume or else how do they take a distribution curve like that and end up with an industry average of 108.
     Reply
    SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) was starred SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    06/22/09

    @SlowMo -the anti-star: By normalizing to "problems per 100 vehicles" they take care of this. However, it can hurt the low-volume manufacturers the most since they have fewer vehicles to normalize over. But, you can also argue that those manufacturers generally charge a premium for their cars and, thus, should have higher quality. For example, Porsche is relatively low volume, but is on top. MINI is also relatively low volume, but is on the bottom.
     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    Wow, what's going on at Lincoln? The Town Car and Navigator have been in production for some time, so I don't see them dragging down the IQS score. Maybe the rash of new product over the last couple of years?
     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of Darrell Jamaal Cole Darrell Jamaal Cole
    06/22/09

    @engineerd hates hydrogen leaks: the MKX, MKS and MKZ are selling like hotcakes here in FL
     Reply
    Darrell Jamaal Cole was starred Darrell Jamaal Cole was unstarred
    Image of brandegee brandegee
    06/22/09

    @Darrell Jamaal Cole: Yep, all they need is desirable cars. Not necessarily reliable cars.
     Reply
    brandegee was starred brandegee was unstarred
    Image of .357 .357
    06/22/09

    In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
    I assumed a company that sells only a few models and that is owned by ze Germans like MINI could do a bit better. I guess they're keeping it BL style.
     Reply
    .357 was starred .357 was unstarred
    Image of combat chuck combat chuck
    06/22/09

    @Ambiguously Unfunny Serial Killer: My boss owned two of them, and both had issues within the first 10K miles.
     Reply
    combat chuck was starred combat chuck was unstarred
    Image of acarr260 acarr260
    06/22/09

    @Ambiguously Unfunny Serial Killer: It really makes me wonder how in the hell they keep their resale value so well if they are plagued with issues.
     Reply
    acarr260 was starred acarr260 was unstarred
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