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Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey

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MushyHeirloom
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Seems to me that "Lexus Tops Survey, Porsche and Cadillac Close Behind" would be a more fair assessment, given the small difference between 90 and 91 (and the larger gap from 84 to 90).
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MushyHeirloom
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Apparently they're actually "Stupid". Or "stupid", since they don't like being capitalised.
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CanadaCraig
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
I'm a little bit confused. And who knows - maybe I'm doing the 'math' wrong. But as far as MY calculations are concerned the 'Industry Average' is closer to 117 than it is to 108. [116.81 to be - almost - exact] Hmmm.....
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MushyHeirloom
06/22/09

@CanadaCraig: Perhaps it's number of cars, rather than of manufacturers?
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MushyHeirloom
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
The only actual surprises here are Mini (come on, guys) and VW (who have fine initial quality, it's just a few years down the road...)
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PowerTryp, Starless wonder.
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Please people, keep in mind this is initial quality.

Also this is problems per 100 vehicles, you could just get 5-6 more good ones than the next guy and not have a true indicative number. Especially when almost all of those brands sell in the hundreds of thousands.
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brandegee
06/22/09

@PowerTryp: True. A Dodge Aspen would get a dreadful initial quality score, but would ace the reliability/longevity and cost of ownership battle.
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MushyHeirloom
06/22/09

@brandegee: What? Those things rusted on the dealer's lot. Outside of that, though, you're right.
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dmdukejr
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Question: is this the same survey that doesn't weigh the severity of the "quality" complaint? In other words, is "the cupholder isn't quite flush with the console lid when it's shut" counted the same as "the engine literally fell out of the car at 65 mph and I ran it over with my boat?"
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Maymar
06/22/09

@dmdukejr: As I recall, Hummer got heavily dinged because H2 owners were unimpressed with its poor fuel economy.
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Alphamazing
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
"Even in the face of unprecedented challenges, the Detroit automakers are keeping their focus on designing and building high-quality vehicles, which is a precondition for long-term success," said David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power and Associates. "High quality generally translates into reduced re-engineering costs and lower warranty expenses during a vehicle's life cycle. High quality also enhances an automaker's reputation for reliability, which is a critical purchase consideration for many consumers."

If that's true, then Mercedes would be as reliable as Toyota. It's a shame Mercedes stopped overengineering their cars the way they used to. MBs used to be tanks. Now, horribly unreliable.
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.357
06/22/09

@Alphamazing: That's actually not true. Over the last few years, MB has been starting to get back on top of it's game. Most post 06 MY cars are actually pretty reliable.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Yet I've heard so many people say they have had problems with their Cayennes.
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.357
06/22/09

@leavethegun-takethecannoli: Those aren't Porsches. And, no offense to who you're talking too, but the buyer demographic doesn't always include the people who take the best care of their cars.
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Ileee
06/22/09

@leavethegun-takethecannoli: Anyone that buys a Cayenne has a problem.
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brandegee
06/22/09

@Ileee: Now that's a statistic I can believe.
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beercheck
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Suzuki's showing pleases me.

Smart's pleases me even more.
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Jagvar
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Damnit Jaguar, even without British Leyland, you're still doing it wrong. Lowest-ranking luxury brand on the list.

*sigh*
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brandegee
06/22/09

@Jagvar: What's interesting are the full-page ads in NYTimes car section specifically touting the reliability of Jaguars.
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snapoversteer 'bout to get told
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Anyone have any info on how J.D. Power's initial quality survey correlates to lifetime cost of ownership? My impression is that this is the least meaningful measure of reliability available.
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Hello Mister Walrus
06/22/09

@snapoversteer: Almost all new vehicles are still under warranty for the first 90 days, so all the problems above should be costless (other than the hassle of bringing them in for repairs). Long term reliability is a different matter. Also, different car brands have different repair costs; for instance, BMW maintenance is much more expensive than Honda maintenance.
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engineerd
06/22/09

@snapoversteer: You're right. The IQS is the least meaningful. JD Power has a long term reliability (3 years, IIRC) metric that is more meaningful.
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B1663R
06/22/09

@Hello Mister Walrus: BMW maintenance is included with the purchase of the car for the first 4 years or whatever miles the warranty covers. same with Vdub.

@snapoversteer: as for reliability ratings, just buy a car and get over it, it'll need fixing sooner or later regardless.

consumer reports says mini's are very reliable and JD power says that they are shit so auto journalists don't have a clue either, you will go mad trying to figure out what car to buy based on reliability.

my advice is to pick something with either cheap parts of something you can fix yourself really easily or both...
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SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R)
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
I assume they must weight by sales volume or else how do they take a distribution curve like that and end up with an industry average of 108.
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engineerd
06/22/09

@SlowMo -the anti-star: By normalizing to "problems per 100 vehicles" they take care of this. However, it can hurt the low-volume manufacturers the most since they have fewer vehicles to normalize over. But, you can also argue that those manufacturers generally charge a premium for their cars and, thus, should have higher quality. For example, Porsche is relatively low volume, but is on top. MINI is also relatively low volume, but is on the bottom.
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engineerd
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
Wow, what's going on at Lincoln? The Town Car and Navigator have been in production for some time, so I don't see them dragging down the IQS score. Maybe the rash of new product over the last couple of years?
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Darrell Jamaal Cole
06/22/09

@engineerd hates hydrogen leaks: the MKX, MKS and MKZ are selling like hotcakes here in FL
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brandegee
06/22/09

@Darrell Jamaal Cole: Yep, all they need is desirable cars. Not necessarily reliable cars.
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.357
06/22/09

In reply to Lexus, Porsche Top 2009 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey
I assumed a company that sells only a few models and that is owned by ze Germans like MINI could do a bit better. I guess they're keeping it BL style.
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combat chuck
06/22/09

@Ambiguously Unfunny Serial Killer: My boss owned two of them, and both had issues within the first 10K miles.
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acarr260
06/22/09

@Ambiguously Unfunny Serial Killer: It really makes me wonder how in the hell they keep their resale value so well if they are plagued with issues.
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