@m_thrizzle: Thanks to the Gas crunch and perceived brand value, Civics, Corollas, Accords and Camrys are DRASTICALLY overvalued in the used car market.
You wouldn't buy a day-to-day car without a heater, so why would you buy one without a/c? You can bundle up for winter (I did have a car with no heater for awhile, so I know this first hand, alas) but even driving naked ain't gonna help in 100 degrees. Dehydration is a bitch.
@NovaloadMissesPolar: I totally would buy a vehicle without AC -in fact, none of my vehicles has ever had functioning AC. Because, I live in Maine. We may have 3 days a year where it would be nice to have, but a heater is essential about 5 months out of the year.
I drove a Dart sans heater-core for 3 years, and bundling up doesn't really do it, nor does it help when you have to scrape both sides of your windshield.
@Kelly: More's the pity- though off the top of my head I can think of three post-'67 advancements that're nice to have: blinkers, 3-point seatbelts, and disc brakes.. other than that, I'm not checking any boxes.
@Slantsick- on the 12th floor of the ACME Building: I just realized that aside from fuel injection (which is nice) and black-plastic covers over the bumpers, my '89 244DL isn't that different from a '67 anything. No cupholders, crank windows, no airbags, and power steering that doesn't do shit.
Yeah, when I was a kid, I never believed my dad when he told me some cars were sold without A/C, mostly in Canada. Having grown up in Florida (at state that essentially exists BECAUSE of A/C).
I could live without it in Alabama, but my passengers would hate me.
Let me get this straight... It's a relatively cool looking little car for what it is. Manual transmission, as God intended it. No crappy factory stereo to remove before installing my own. No air conditioning to add weight and break down. Steel wheels that I could replace with anything I'd like, such as a set of Minilites.
Guess they don't plan on selling too many of these in the South or Southwest. Why would you spend $10k on a car that didn't even have a/c? (Unless it is something along the lines of a Se7en) The general rule around here is any car that runs is worth $500, but worth at least $750 if the a/c still works. If you live any place that has more than 4 months where the temp can be over 90 you NEED a/c! I can't imagine a dealer actually selling any of these without a/c in Atlanta. It would be like trying to sell a new car without heat in Wisconsin.
@smalleyxb122: I, for one, welcome our new stripper-model econobox overlords.
Now, if I could get a genuinely compact pickup as a stripper model off a dealer lot, we'd be talking.
The 95 GMC Slownoma I used to have had nearly zero options (it did have a bed liner, but that was likely aftermarket), but it was screwed together by incompetent New Jersey "people," so it fell apart like a Brilliance BS6 in a crash test. If I could have something like that, but without the Cavalier engine, and U-joints that lasted more than a week, I'd be a happy man.
So for 90% of U.S. buyers that no-frills Accent is a whopping $13,670. I'm cheap, but I'm not so cheap that I would do without A/C. If Versa's entry model comes with a magic anti-sweat machine, Nissan still wins.
Not only is this an inexpensive car, it is definitely a cheap one, too.
Why, if you're shopping in the $10K part of the automotive world, are you not getting both an hourly Craigslist fix and hunting the classified ads from anyplace either a friend will drive you or which has a Greyhound terminal, looking for the score-of-the-decade '04 Camry with 55K miles on it, for chump change?
Older, nice used cars trump cheezy new cars any day of the week. Me and my 20 year old S-class stand by this logic until it finally dies...probably around the time the world runs out of petroleum.
I think that is only a good plan if you are mechanically inclined. Even still, I'd imagine that although that old S Class is much cooler, it'd be unreliable as all hell?
@Kelly: Oh I agree with you, but that usually means $10K in cash. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, which means they need financing. No bank outside of Vinny in Bayonne will finance a 20-year-old European car.
Plus, there's no safety net if that old car has a problem. You're also buying a warranty...
My logic has always been, if something catastrophic happens, I have only $1,500-$3K "invested" (I likes me some nice beater cars), and I can't repair it myself, or gasp, have someone do it for me, it happens, then I'll just get a replacement one. Maybe even one of the same make and model 'cause now I have my own parts!
Sorry, I feel a little bit of white trash coming through. The above has never happened with four-wheeled transportation, but it has with two-wheeled ones.
I'd make sure there was a dedicated garage bay for the parts car, and would likely have it 100% disassembled in a few months, carting off the carcass in the dark so as not to disturb the neighbors.
@Kelly: oh lord, you've gone my route. I'm going to keep buying Ford Thunderbirds because if anything breaks, I've got all the parts I need to fix it already, and I already know how to change it and have the tools to change it. This is the reason why I am on MN12 (89-97) Ford Thunderbird number three (notwithstanding the other two ford thunderbirds driven by my mother and younger brother). Thanks for reminding me how white trash I can be in a neighborhood of multi-million-dollar houses.
@rlj676-new job, same problems: The thing about Benzes is that sometime in the mid '90s they went from being rock solid to rocky road. They just up and decided to fire everyone in Quality Control, I guess.
Okay, so it doesn't look like a Chrysler. It's got that over the Tribeca.
Uh, yeah, I think that's it. As long as this means GM's taking the Trollblazer behind the barn, I can live with it.
Aha! Wikipedia sez:
The GMT360 platform and the 9-7X are not scheduled to be updated or continued after the 2009 model year. Its position in the Saab lineup was eventually to be occupied by the Subaru B9 Tribeca-based Saab 9-6X, however GM has divested its Subaru stock and 9-6X development has been cancelled. Instead, the position will be filled by the Theta-based 9-4X, a vehicle scheduled for production during the 2010 model year.
Sounds like good news to me! Small, sporty crossover! I can live with that.
Okay, I admit it. I was wrong. Time to let GM die. Of all the things they could be doing... If this isn't a cry for a mercy killing, I don't know what is.
@Van Sarockin: I say Nardelli and Wagoner have a fight to the death; whichever of them survives, their company is allowed to pillage the other for anything they need to keep running.
I'm going to call shennanigans - do automakers PATENT their designs? I know that they trademark names & derivatives thereof, but i thought that patents were reserved for new & innovative products and processes. (Though GM should have the patent on the process of Badge engineering)
@rexplex: Yes they do. Though these aren't full patents but "design patents" which basically just cover the exact look or ornamental design of the object as opposed to the technical features.
The design patent in question is real and can be found on the USPTO website [patft.uspto.gov]
You've been knighted! Well, it was just a matter of time.
/obscure reference
@rexplex: VW/Audi should have the patent on badge-engineering, as they're the company that actually does it right. In paying licensing fees to VW for following the process, GM should have to take classes from them on how to do it properly.
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I drove a Dart sans heater-core for 3 years, and bundling up doesn't really do it, nor does it help when you have to scrape both sides of your windshield.
11/26/08
What, no 'delete heater' option?
Oh, yeah, this isn't 1967 any more....
11/26/08
(42.8 degrees north latitude, here.)
11/26/08
11/26/08
Me either.
11/26/08
11/26/08
I could live without it in Alabama, but my passengers would hate me.
11/26/08
It's a relatively cool looking little car for what it is. Manual transmission, as God intended it. No crappy factory stereo to remove before installing my own. No air conditioning to add weight and break down. Steel wheels that I could replace with anything I'd like, such as a set of Minilites.
Where do I sign up?
11/26/08
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A couple more:
- Accent Super Leggera?
- Accent Challenge stradale?
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I hope this is a trend. If the trend finds its way upmarket to more spirited offerings, I might be intrigued.
Unfortunately, the US gub'ment won't let them offer it without airbags. That's a delete I'd take even if it didn't lower the price any.
11/26/08
Now, if I could get a genuinely compact pickup as a stripper model off a dealer lot, we'd be talking.
The 95 GMC Slownoma I used to have had nearly zero options (it did have a bed liner, but that was likely aftermarket), but it was screwed together by incompetent New Jersey "people," so it fell apart like a Brilliance BS6 in a crash test. If I could have something like that, but without the Cavalier engine, and U-joints that lasted more than a week, I'd be a happy man.
11/26/08
11/26/08
It is in trucks.
What you guys are all describing sounds like a Silverado WT, which you can get with a vinyl bench, no carpet, and I believe even roll-up windows.
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Total MSRP : $17,645
Ouch.
Though on the bright side, you can get it in Mellow Yellow.
11/26/08
11/26/08
Why, if you're shopping in the $10K part of the automotive world, are you not getting both an hourly Craigslist fix and hunting the classified ads from anyplace either a friend will drive you or which has a Greyhound terminal, looking for the score-of-the-decade '04 Camry with 55K miles on it, for chump change?
Older, nice used cars trump cheezy new cars any day of the week. Me and my 20 year old S-class stand by this logic until it finally dies...probably around the time the world runs out of petroleum.
11/26/08
I think that is only a good plan if you are mechanically inclined. Even still, I'd imagine that although that old S Class is much cooler, it'd be unreliable as all hell?
11/26/08
Plus, there's no safety net if that old car has a problem. You're also buying a warranty...
11/26/08
People that buy a $10k new car are not in the market for a $10k car. They are in the market for a car that costs (X dollars) / month.
11/26/08
About the lack of a warranty.
My logic has always been, if something catastrophic happens, I have only $1,500-$3K "invested" (I likes me some nice beater cars), and I can't repair it myself, or gasp, have someone do it for me, it happens, then I'll just get a replacement one. Maybe even one of the same make and model 'cause now I have my own parts!
Sorry, I feel a little bit of white trash coming through. The above has never happened with four-wheeled transportation, but it has with two-wheeled ones.
I'd make sure there was a dedicated garage bay for the parts car, and would likely have it 100% disassembled in a few months, carting off the carcass in the dark so as not to disturb the neighbors.
11/26/08
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11/18/08
11/18/08
11/18/08
Uh, yeah, I think that's it. As long as this means GM's taking the Trollblazer behind the barn, I can live with it.
Aha! Wikipedia sez:
The GMT360 platform and the 9-7X are not scheduled to be updated or continued after the 2009 model year. Its position in the Saab lineup was eventually to be occupied by the Subaru B9 Tribeca-based Saab 9-6X, however GM has divested its Subaru stock and 9-6X development has been cancelled. Instead, the position will be filled by the Theta-based 9-4X, a vehicle scheduled for production during the 2010 model year.
Sounds like good news to me! Small, sporty crossover! I can live with that.
11/18/08
Mmmm....small sporty Thera-based crossover with Saab styling and XWD...
Actually, that sounds pretty damn good.
11/18/08
And by "this", I mean "a Murano".
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That would make for some damn good television right there.
11/18/08
I know that they trademark names & derivatives thereof, but i thought that patents were reserved for new & innovative products and processes. (Though GM should have the patent on the process of Badge engineering)
11/18/08
The design patent in question is real and can be found on the USPTO website [patft.uspto.gov]
11/18/08
Although published on November 4, 2008 is was actually filed June 29, 2007. So they have been floating around for a little while though not 3 years.
11/18/08
You've been knighted! Well, it was just a matter of time.
/obscure reference
@rexplex: VW/Audi should have the patent on badge-engineering, as they're the company that actually does it right. In paying licensing fees to VW for following the process, GM should have to take classes from them on how to do it properly.
11/18/08
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