The Alfa, once you've dropped $60-70k on it, could be worth up to $20 grand and will be the object of someone's desire. The Lancia, while not as bad as some would lead you to believe, will NEVER be worth $20k no matter how much you spend on it and no one but a hardcore Lancisti will want it. Therefore, Lancia. #beta
I've owned several examples of both these vehicles. The Beta is pure over-packed Italian front-wheel-drive engine bay hell. The GTV is a walk in the park, expecially after you convert to carbs. #beta
Both would be great projects. But the Lancia would be the harder project, and fewer people care about Lancias. The Lancia's body isn't near as sexy as the Alfa's, either. So it's an easy call.
But they are both big bumpered, emissions strangled Italian iron and aluminum, so everyone's a winner here. #beta
@Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: Actually, I don't really think the 2000 GTV was that emissions-strangled. For the 71 model year they actually increased the HP total up to 130, which is not bad considering the car still weighs about 300lbs less than a Honda Civic. And the Lancia's FWD. Ugh. #beta
@Muscles Marinara: I agree. I'd argue that aside from the inclusion of the Spica FI vs. Dual Webers there is no emissions. The 75 or 76 on Spiders have power strangling emissions. and depending upon which alfisti you speak to, the stock Spica in top tune is a better driver than an equal Carb'd car. I loved my dual webers on my 72' but my 73' reliability and ease of starting sold me on the Spica. #beta
If only the Lancia was a Scorpion, it might have a PCH chance in, uh, PCH against the oil-less, unknown titled, passenger windowless, 20-year-dusted, rusted-in-all-the-Alfa-places GTV.... #beta
I'm having trouble voting because I'm intrigued by the Cutlass with the potato for a gas cap.
Also, I know nothing about Italian cars, except that they are pretty and diabolically unreliable, and hence expensive. I'll go with the Alfa, though, because it looks more like its heritage and less, as with the Lancia, like an old Sentra or Stanza. Or Cressida. You know what I mean.
Because PCH is all about the suffering, and why suffer for what looks like an econobox?
@Novaload: Growing up in Seattle, before it was cool, we used to tell outsiders that the weather was awful, the economy poor, the area was the last bastion of west coast rednecks and the traffic terrible. All in the hope that nobody would come.
This is the same logic that drives those in the know to tell the world how bad these affordable Italians are - so that they will remain affordable. The truth is, they are remarkably easy to wrench on (by modern standards) and incredibly rewarding to drive. #beta
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was starred
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was unstarred
Having ridden in Jay Lamm's GTV, I can say they're great cars... that is, after you write a 5-figure check to have Conrad Stevenson go through them. #beta
Forget the Lancia. It might be attractive but it's a malaise US special with a pathetic 82 horsepower out of the 1800 engine. Also, this car probably has the Soviet-sourced steel that Fiat received in payment for setting up the VAZ/Lada factory. It's a wonder that this car isn't a pile of reddish flakes. Maybe the paint is holding it together. Give it time.
The Alfa looks to be a private import. I don't think that Alfa was still selling the GTV in the US in 1974 (I couold be wrong, though). The front bumper looks like a Euro model. At any rate, it has the classic Giugiaro styling and these coupes have become genuinely collectible. Which makes it the bigger tease. You'll be forever chasing the ephemeral dream of creating a desirable driver that will be worth some coin. That makes it more hellish.
Glad to see PCH is back - I hope it becomes a regular feature again. #beta
@tonyola: You've brought up something interesting-- I know that Alfa was still bringing GTVs stateside in '74, because a friend of mine bought one new, but I don't know how they escaped the big, fat impact bumpers that the DOT was mandating on other cars. #beta
This was easy for me. You see, I've always loved Alfa GTVs. It's one of those "just right" cars that strikes a good balance in many ways: Small enough to be tossable, big enough to be comfortable; raw enough for track work, refined enough for long highway journeys; far more sophisticated than the average British sports car, yet still something a competent amateur mechanic can easily tackle. And they look fantastic.
I picked the Lancia. You know why? Because everyone else has a goddamn Alfa. Where I live, you can't shout "Spica injection is unreliable and produces less power than properly set-up Weber sidedrafts" without a crowd of Alfa fanatics coming out of the woodwork to explain how wonderful and easy-to-tune Spica systems are, and how it was only restrictive emissions requirements that made later Spica-equipped cars difficult to deal with. Likewise, you can't say the phrase "crappy high-carbon Soviet steel" without them explaining that Italian cars really don't rust that badly, as long as you don't get them wet.
I'm not a big fan of the Lancia. It's got a nice, snorty twin-cam motor, but you can get the same motor in a Fiat 124 Spider, and it will be placed in a better-looking body and driving the proper wheels. If you get the Alfa, you'll have the support of a group of friendly, knowledgeable, supportive Alfa enthusiasts, and when you're done with your project you'll get to drive around in an absolutely fantastic little car.
Holy cr@p! This used to by my buddy's old car. Guy lived in S.F. but sold it after the nylon timing gear disentegrated. Car was damn near immaculate inside & the guy kept it clean. I remember when he got the black paint job (used to be olive green), the American Racing 15s and also when he got the dual exhaust with dual Flowmasters. Damn that thing could pull. We used to ride around with the Alpine cassette (located in the glove box) & the four Kenwood 5.25s coaxials bumping. System was courtesy of the old Good Guys in Serramonte. Damn good times cruising around the city in this thing. This pic just put a big smile on my face.
@louie95340: Very cool when we get the back story of DOTS cars. These Capris used to be all over the place, nearly reaching Nova levels of ubiquity. I swear I drag raced this car's twin down the 4 lane boulevard leading to Alameda NAS back in the day.
Ah, "Europe's Mustang".....I'd love to find a pre-smog, chrome-bumpered, 6 cylinder Mk 1 Capri. Good looks, thin on the ground (in the US), a decent performer, and racing heritage. Make mine an RS2600, and I'd be a happy camper.
Oh, here are some purdy pictures of the Capri in action
@scroggzilla raids again: I know of a gorgeous Mk1 Capri that's for sale in my area. It has the 1600 cross-flow instead of the Cologne V6, but there's certainly nothing wrong with that motor. An 8000 RPM, 180-horsepower 1600 Capri could be a lot of fun.
@Armand: Alas, my ability to purchase such quirky dream machines is greatly damaged and likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.......(sigh).
Mavericks and Capris are my favorite 70's compact Ford cars. Too bad the latter wasn't sold in Mexico because I'd be already hooning the hell out of one along with my V8 powered Maverick.
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But they are both big bumpered, emissions strangled Italian iron and aluminum, so everyone's a winner here. #beta
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Also, I know nothing about Italian cars, except that they are pretty and diabolically unreliable, and hence expensive. I'll go with the Alfa, though, because it looks more like its heritage and less, as with the Lancia, like an old Sentra or Stanza. Or Cressida. You know what I mean.
Because PCH is all about the suffering, and why suffer for what looks like an econobox?
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This is the same logic that drives those in the know to tell the world how bad these affordable Italians are - so that they will remain affordable. The truth is, they are remarkably easy to wrench on (by modern standards) and incredibly rewarding to drive. #beta
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I know enough people to help me with the Alfa ... gotta go there... #beta
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The Alfa looks to be a private import. I don't think that Alfa was still selling the GTV in the US in 1974 (I couold be wrong, though). The front bumper looks like a Euro model. At any rate, it has the classic Giugiaro styling and these coupes have become genuinely collectible. Which makes it the bigger tease. You'll be forever chasing the ephemeral dream of creating a desirable driver that will be worth some coin. That makes it more hellish.
Glad to see PCH is back - I hope it becomes a regular feature again. #beta
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I picked the Lancia. You know why? Because everyone else has a goddamn Alfa. Where I live, you can't shout "Spica injection is unreliable and produces less power than properly set-up Weber sidedrafts" without a crowd of Alfa fanatics coming out of the woodwork to explain how wonderful and easy-to-tune Spica systems are, and how it was only restrictive emissions requirements that made later Spica-equipped cars difficult to deal with. Likewise, you can't say the phrase "crappy high-carbon Soviet steel" without them explaining that Italian cars really don't rust that badly, as long as you don't get them wet.
I'm not a big fan of the Lancia. It's got a nice, snorty twin-cam motor, but you can get the same motor in a Fiat 124 Spider, and it will be placed in a better-looking body and driving the proper wheels. If you get the Alfa, you'll have the support of a group of friendly, knowledgeable, supportive Alfa enthusiasts, and when you're done with your project you'll get to drive around in an absolutely fantastic little car.
Where's the hell in that? #beta
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and this guy: [jalopnik.com] #beta
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Have you ever seen a Ford Counsul Capri?
[www.breeders.co.nz]
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Oh, here are some purdy pictures of the Capri in action
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