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2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year

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theeastbaykid
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
I've always felt that there's a lot "they" aren't telling us about clean diesel. First, the crutch explaining the lack of Euro diesels in the states was that everyone pictured a 1979 300D clattering and smoking down the road, despite the fact that that was 30 years ago and to most young people, a 300D might as well have been a Model T. The second explanation was that the U.S. didn't have the low-sulfur diesel available in Europe that is easier on particulate traps and other modern diesel smog controls--we've now had that fuel for over two years, and big diesel players like BMW, Honda, and Toyota are all no-shows in the U.S. Then, here in ultra smog-tough California, some recent Mercedes and VW diesels were not smog certified even though they were sold in the other 49 states. And finally, the big-hoopla Acura TSX diesel release has been put on hold because they can't get the automatic to pass smog.

Clearly, there's more going on behind the scenes than the average person is aware of, and the end result is that in the U.S., and especially in California, clean diesel still isn't *quite* a mainstream reality (with this Jetta TDI being an obvious footnote). Regardless of how you feel about the Prius (and other gas hybrids), the stark reality is that you have been able to buy one in California since 2001 and use it as a normal car, when you haven't been able to do the same with an oil-burner.
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

@theeastbaykid: Blame LA's historically based fear of smog.

Ground-level ozone is the big reason that CA opposes diesels. Can't say I blame them. While there's still reasonable doubt that human CO2 emissions cause anything at all, it's proven that smog particulates increase emphysema and cancer at higher rates than normal.

I'm a states' right advocate and I support their right to make a choice for what's right for their people/cities. The crappy flipside of that coin is that CA represents such a huge part of the buying market, manufacturers will rarely sell anything that won't pass muster in CA.
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theeastbaykid
11/20/08

@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: So even clean diesels are still on the hook for ground-level ozone? This could be the elusive "thing" that "they" aren't telling us!
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

@theeastbaykid: Not the "clean diesels" (marketing-speak!)...I meant that CA was the primary reason that we couldn't get diesels here much over the past 5-8 years. The lack of low-sulphur diesel fuel came into play later on, too.

The current crop of diesels are better, but they had to jump through a lot of hoops to get them there (4-cyl with downstream filters. 6-cyl with filters AND urea injection)
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sos10
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
Although a good car, it still is depending 100% on oil, therefore wrong choice.

(besides the fact that it is cheaper to buy, and use, a Prius hybrid)
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Rust-MyEnemy
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
My favourite green car:-

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layabout
11/20/08

@Rust-MyEnemyEnjoysPleasure!!!!: Ahhh yes,now that's more like it.
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Deartháir II
11/20/08

@Rust-MyEnemyEnjoysPleasure!!!!: I like the cut of your jib, sir.
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Elhigh
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
The smart fortwo should never have been in the running. How can something that itty-tiny perform so ... averagely ... in the fuel economy category? Did they make it so small for no reason besides parking?

The awesome bit about diesels is that you can run them on oil palm sap straight out of the tree. Just run it through a filter and go.
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SuzanneD
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
Awesome awesome AWESOME. I can't even describe how elated I am a car that actually PERFORMS as well as it conserves fuel took home the prize.
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layabout
11/20/08

@SuzanneD: I thought you were into Volvo's? The C30 turbo diesel is impressive when it come to performance & economy.
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

@layabout: To date, we Yanks and Canucks only have VW and Mercedes diesels to choose from (which partly explains the shortlist above).

Next year, we'll have BMW and possibly Honda, as well.

Not sure why Nissan is dragging their feet on bringing the Renault powerplants over, though.
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layabout
11/20/08

@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: To be brutally honest,most people in Europe probably have the opinion that America doesn't care for diesels. I must admit i was pleasantly surprised when i started commenting on Jalopnik that it is not the case.
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

@layabout: Sadly, the EPA has kept them out for a long time (again, the particulates), in addition to several states that wouldn't allow them, thus invalidating a company's business case for bringing them to the US.

But as for public perception, we have lots of people who remember a time when GM was putting crappy diesels into anything and everything (early 80s), as well as the current plethora of heavy-duty pickup and delivery trucks using diesels. It's so bad, Mercedes and VW both avoid the use of the word "diesel" in their literature for fear of association with that image (tdi or bluetec are preferred)
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Six Flags Over Tomsk
11/20/08

@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: The Maxima is supposedly still on schedule to get a Renault V6 diesel for '10.
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Tetzuoe
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
That's a lie, you cant get them in green at all.
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Mad_Science
11/20/08

@Tetzuoe: COTD
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Novaload
12/31/08

@Mad_Science: Seconded!
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Cognitive Friction
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
If there's one person whose input I value above all others when choosing my next car, it's the French guy that runs the Ocean Futures Society
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Joshuman
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
I'm glad a diesel was selected as the winner. The more people who buy them, the smaller the price difference will become between the diesel engine and the gasoline engine.

I probably will not be buying a Jetta TDI any time soon but not because I have anything against VW - I have owned three Jettas and a GTI. Before I bought the GTI I crunched some numbers on a TDI Golf and, although I was commuting about 100 miles a day, the price premium for the engine and the fuel did not save me very much money over a four-year span. I went for the 1.8T and higher trim level instead.
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layabout
11/20/08

@joshman - repeatedly clicking expand all: Diesels have been popular in Europe for some time,still yet to see any drop in price due to their popularity.
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pres
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
I'd take an '82 Datsun diesel pick-up over that any day. But, I'm not right in the head so ignore me.
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Elhigh
11/20/08

@pres_has something cool after his name too.: Toyota for me, with the 2L engine. Nice. I understand that as swaps into the gas engines go, it's not too bad, so I could conceivably find something several years younger and install the 2L and be happy.
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pres
11/20/08

@Elhigh:

True.
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layabout
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
Off thread now,i've been waiting for Mr Wert on CNBC, they just said a loan has been agreed for the big 3 & shares have risen. Also Honda to cut U.S. vehicle output by 18,000 units.
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layabout
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
I'm guessing European laws are tougher,as it's not exactly a green car. Out of the short list i was hoping for the 335d,which is one hell of a car.
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

@layabout: You guys are tougher on CO2, but more lax on particulates and Nitrogen Oxides. It's basically the reverse here, but it's changing.

I suspect the 335d didn't make it because the EPA mpg numbers are only 34 hwy (vs Jetta's 41), which is only incrementally better than most 4-cyl cars of that size. Never mind all the power you get from the BMW in return, which is obviously something a true consumer would consider. A 320d would have taken the award, I suspect.
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Graverobber
11/20/08

@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: Yeah, also the 335d is like $44 grand isn't it?
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

@graverobber- My Yugo Nova!: I haven't seen pricing announced on it anywhere yet. Something tells me "real life" price will be right there with the 335i, making the decision almost impossible.
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brandegee
11/20/08

@layabout: If by that you mean one hell of an expensive car, then yes, I agree with you.
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layabout
11/20/08

@brandegee: Yeah,it costs a lot,i always view new cars as cars i could possibly own after a few years depreciation. But credit where its due that is a fine engine,& i don't generally like diesels.
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Graverobber
11/20/08

@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: I think the 44K number came from AutoWeek, but I can't remember for sure.
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Das ASHloch (achtundsiebzig)
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
I'd still consider it, but I'm waiting to see how the first couple years of the US-spec diesel turn out.

My ride (98 Passat) has been reasonably reliable. It's incrementally more expensive than a comparable Accord or Maxima might be, but not enough to drive me away from the brand completely. I still have yet to find a brand whose entire lineup are the best driving experience at almost all of their respective price points (especially the sub-$30k models)
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Timtoolman, sporadically speaking
11/20/08

In reply to 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Announced As 2009 Green Car Of The Year
I'd be hard-pressed to own a VW.
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Elhigh
11/20/08

@timtoolman: I'd own an oil press and a VW.
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