The New York Times is reporting on New Geography's ideas. That talks about other kinds of urban renewal, you should read it sometime.
Ben, what's your bright idea to deal with the many areas of Detroit with only a few houses standing per block? Do you object to Flint's plan to demolish 6,000 abandoned houses? What happens next? #detroit
me: thats a very solid bit of construction
narrator: the young mans hand moves silently up to his imaginary beard as he quietly ponders the immense number of laws and regulations he could seamlessly break in such a vehicle capable of massive hoonage. #j8
Look, I love Detroit. I'm an urban planner in SE Michigan, fer chrissakes, so I'm bound by professional ethics to say I love it....but it IS a failed city. It's not coming back. That's ridiculous. The reason it's "honest and interesting" is because it's the fucking wild west where a person can do just about anything they want without interference from the city. It's an AWESOME place to be a young hipster or artist, but I don't personally know anyone who has decided to have kids and settle down within city limits. There aren't enough hipsters, queers and artists in America to repopulate the city, though.
Detroit has pockets of greatness, swaths of meh, and huge tracts of vacant emptiness. The city has half the people it's built for, so that means twice the cost per resident to maintain infrastructure, twice the effort to provide services and half the density required for it to feel like it used to. There just aren't enough people there.
Detroit needs to collapse back onto its core gracefully. At some point the city needs to redefine its boundaries and stop providing services to the dead. Pretending that new condos here, a casino there and a couple of trails will fix things is not the right path.
Memo to Jeep: PUT THIS IN YOUR SHOWROOMS AND SELL IT.
And by 'this', I mean 'exactly this'. Diesel, rugged, basic. Don't care if it rides like crap; it's a friggin' jeep fer chrissakes. Only option I want is a hardtop for camping in crap weather and having minimal protection against thieves. Oh, and front & rear lockers.
Giving it exclusively to AEV (where it becomes a $50,000+ toy) is an idea that needs to be stamped FAIL in big, red, angry letters. #j8
@KAR120C: Chrysler didn't give it to AEV, AEV went out and twisted Chrysler's arm to get it, and the reason it's that expensive is because it's built to a significantly higher durability specification, has a different rear suspension and is basically hand assembled rather than on an assembly line. #j8
@Ben Wojdyla: Good points, and you're right. I (and everyone else who wants them to come back from the ashes) really need to keep the high emotions re: Jeep in check. #j8
@Ben Wojdyla: Leaf springs, steel wheels, less safety equipment, diesel motor...that doesn't add up. It's pretty much the hand-built thing that causes the prices to skyrocket. However, I don't see why they can't just do the same thing on a standard jeep frame. These jeeps won't be dropped from helicopters or anything. They could EASILY make a robust, diesel jeep with this look and feel for less than 20k. #j8
@Sloop_John_B: They could, but 9 people would buy them.
As to the steel wheels, leaf springs, reinforced frame, unique body panels, Dana axles, yada yada; Yes, it's a vehicle with less consumer content, but it still requires engineering, tooling, sourcing and production overhead which all needs to be amortized over a much smaller volume than the regular Wrangler. Even a Tata Nano would be $50k if it were built in low volumes. #j8
NYT at least should have considered popular opinion, I mean, we youngsters aren't gonna take a liking to their publication if Eminem ain't rappin' 'bout D-town no mo'.
Also, here's an idea, why don't you farm where there's actually, you know, land? #detroit
Nicely done piece. As a native Californian with lots of family in the Detroit area, I have a combination of perspectives--while Detroit is undeniably in a sad state, the idea of throwing it away and starting over is an amateurish ploy for attention. It's easy to have a condescending attitude toward a place if you've never really experienced it, which the NYT apparently hasn't. #detroit
If I visit Jeep dot com, my heart rate stays the same when I go through the product line, but when I see a couple of photos of these rolling on the street it suddenly skyrockets. Shouldn't it be the other way? #j8
@Mobius: I wasn't exactly referring to the MGs on these but the down right tough as nails configuration which in this case is purely for real. The bumpers, the rings, the wheels, paint job, seats, hard top with fabric on the sides, ramps, guards, etc, etc. #j8
I agree with you concerning the zero-viability equation of any full scale, corp0rate-level farming in reclaimed Urban Areas (I spent many a summer at my grandparents dairy farm) but, to be fair, two points should be made:
1-this is not a Times editorial, or even a Times reporter's idea-it's basically a link to an article in something called 'New Geography' [www.newgeography.com]
Even so, the term "failed city" is disparaging to those who live in Detroit, past and present, and should have been addressed.
2-reading that article, it's author reflects much more on urban gardening plots than any type
of large scale farming, and these vegetable gardens on vacant lots are common in any city. However, the article does contain a certain level of hippie/commune/Whole Earth Catalog-type aphorisms ("...open land, fertile soil, ample water, willing labor..." etc.) that seem like possible wishful thinking, though it does contain instances of people actually doing this stuff-in Detroit. Would be interesting for someone living there to ferret out these (supposed) urban "farmers" and get the straight scoop.
3. I recently read an article (L.A. Times I believe) about people who knock on doors in urban SoCal areas that have fruit trees in their yards, and set up a collective to share the produce that otherwise just goes to waste (how many lemons can one family use?) So, good stuff can happen if someone's willing to work at putting it into action. #detroit
Let me say, that I am also a Detroiter. Some Detroiters (including one of the guys from Slows BBQ, which is amazing) put this together. It pushes towards urban farming. #detroit
@d3c509b aka Steve: I'm not against big urban gardening, I think it's pretty cool in fact. I am annoyed by the notion of urban farming. Somewhere the term "urban farming" happened, and it's not exactly accurate. Commercial farming of corn, beans, sugar beets, etc is simply not feasible in a city. Food growing in giant gardens is. #detroit
11/10/09
The New York Times is reporting on New Geography's ideas. That talks about other kinds of urban renewal, you should read it sometime.
Ben, what's your bright idea to deal with the many areas of Detroit with only a few houses standing per block? Do you object to Flint's plan to demolish 6,000 abandoned houses? What happens next? #detroit
11/09/09
narrator: the young mans hand moves silently up to his imaginary beard as he quietly ponders the immense number of laws and regulations he could seamlessly break in such a vehicle capable of massive hoonage. #j8
11/09/09
Detroit has pockets of greatness, swaths of meh, and huge tracts of vacant emptiness. The city has half the people it's built for, so that means twice the cost per resident to maintain infrastructure, twice the effort to provide services and half the density required for it to feel like it used to. There just aren't enough people there.
Detroit needs to collapse back onto its core gracefully. At some point the city needs to redefine its boundaries and stop providing services to the dead. Pretending that new condos here, a casino there and a couple of trails will fix things is not the right path.
11/09/09
11/09/09
For fuck's sake. Just make the green one available to the public for less than 25k with a few color choices. #j8
11/09/09
And by 'this', I mean 'exactly this'. Diesel, rugged, basic. Don't care if it rides like crap; it's a friggin' jeep fer chrissakes. Only option I want is a hardtop for camping in crap weather and having minimal protection against thieves. Oh, and front & rear lockers.
Giving it exclusively to AEV (where it becomes a $50,000+ toy) is an idea that needs to be stamped FAIL in big, red, angry letters. #j8
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
As to the steel wheels, leaf springs, reinforced frame, unique body panels, Dana axles, yada yada; Yes, it's a vehicle with less consumer content, but it still requires engineering, tooling, sourcing and production overhead which all needs to be amortized over a much smaller volume than the regular Wrangler. Even a Tata Nano would be $50k if it were built in low volumes. #j8
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
Also, here's an idea, why don't you farm where there's actually, you know, land? #detroit
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/10/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
1-this is not a Times editorial, or even a Times reporter's idea-it's basically a link to an article in something called 'New Geography' [www.newgeography.com]
Even so, the term "failed city" is disparaging to those who live in Detroit, past and present, and should have been addressed.
2-reading that article, it's author reflects much more on urban gardening plots than any type
of large scale farming, and these vegetable gardens on vacant lots are common in any city. However, the article does contain a certain level of hippie/commune/Whole Earth Catalog-type aphorisms ("...open land, fertile soil, ample water, willing labor..." etc.) that seem like possible wishful thinking, though it does contain instances of people actually doing this stuff-in Detroit. Would be interesting for someone living there to ferret out these (supposed) urban "farmers" and get the straight scoop.
3. I recently read an article (L.A. Times I believe) about people who knock on doors in urban SoCal areas that have fruit trees in their yards, and set up a collective to share the produce that otherwise just goes to waste (how many lemons can one family use?) So, good stuff can happen if someone's willing to work at putting it into action. #detroit
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
Gardening is a "productive hobby". I am all for "productive hobbies"
Farming is a "profitable profession."
And you're not gonna make a very profitable profession farming in Detroit, even on free/stolen land. #detroit