I just read all the posts in this thread and the overwhelming sentiment I detected from the self-proclaimed F1 fans is one of elitism and self-superiority while deriding and denigrating NASCAR fans and the sport.

As long as F1 supporters view themselves as intellectually superior to most American racing fans, their favorite motorsport will never have significant support or success in the US.

In the US, racing is not an activity for the aristocracy or the elite. It's a competition for the everyman, where one person's skill, bravery, and determination is pitted against another using a machine. Americans love the idea that they can personally identify with the guy behind the wheel, pushing himself and his machine to the limits. He got there by hard work, self sacrifice, a willingness to risk it all, and a little luck. He's a self made man, just like me and you.

The challenge with F1 in the US comes from the same attitude I detected from the F1 fans who posted here. The sport is only for elites, intellectually and stylistically superior, who view themselves above the crass and vulgar simpletons with their short attention spans, only interested in racing for the crashes. These peasants do not have the mental capacity to understand the intricacies of a modern F1 car, its engineering and aerodynamics are far over the head of your typical NASCAR fan.

I like F1 and watch all the races, but its easy for me to understand why it will never be successful in the US. The small handful of smug pricks who love the sport are not enough to support it. If F1 is to be successful, it need to organically create its own US fan base. The global politics and intrigue of the sport needs to be germinated here and tended like a prize garden. The F1 circus is exciting, but that needs to be made more accessible to the masses, not purposely kept apart with access only to international celebrities and the super rich. Fans needs to see and hear the drivers. Americans need to get to know them as people, not just racing drivers.

Ultimately, F1 needs to dedicate itself to long term success in the US. F1 needs to commit to America, to stick around long enough for a fan base to be built from scratch. The typical American racing fan will never embrace F1 because they can't personally identify with the sport and, most importantly, don't have to embrace it. There is more than enough racing in the US to satisfy almost everyone.

In the end, F1 needs to understand that it needs the US a lot more than the US needs F1. As long as F1 and its fans view themselves as superior to American-based racing, F1 is guaranteed to fail.

Interesting points but mostly wrong and a terrible conclusion. Sorry. You're hard on NASCAR, I'm hard on your point of view.

Americans do not need a racing "step" or primer. There is more auto racing here than any place else in the world. Racing is a bigger business, generates more revenue, employs more people, and has a large spectator base than any other nation. We don't need Simon Cowell to entertain us about cars and competition; its in our blood, we live it every day on the roads of America.

The idea of a video game players driving real cars in competition has been done, and failed. Speed Channel has tried "Racing as a reality show" several times, and failed. It's a non-starter. Forget about it.

You're right about the "boys in tha hood" story appeal of American sports. This is very powerful motivation in American sports. The idea that anyone, no matter how poor, can be a success in sports is aggressively burned into the minds and hearts of kids nationwide. Problem with F1 is the drivers and others did not start their careers in the ghetto or the backwoods. All had powerful and wealthy benefactors funding and supporting their entire career all the way to F1. Most Americans do not identify with that and won't embrace it.

Your comments on the drama in racing are spot on, though. That is what keeps NASCAR fans going. They love the personalities, the conflicts, the drama on and off the track. Not much different than the F1 circus, the politics, and the drama created from both.

Agreed. That's why I get a new Cadillac every year. They change their look every year.

When I'm out shooting home improvement specials for Life magazine, I've got to look good to convince the customer my new aluminum siding product is worth the money.

Like most folks here, I am not sad to see the show die. None of the three presenters were compelling enough to make me a regular viewer and supporter.

Carolla is a good sidekick for someone, and a great curmudgeon, but he simply does not have the chops to be a leading man on TV. His TV personality is brittle and harsh. He squints at the camera too much and he doesn't look and feel natural in front of the camera. On radio he is hysterical and insightful. On TV he feels out of place. The sad thing is, I think he feels he is brilliant and he wants everyone to see how wonderful he is on TV. His style doesn't work that way.

Farah may have had some great creative ideas for the show, but it felt like he was competing with Carolla for camera time. Matt is clearly a car guy and I'm sure most of us would love to hang with him, talking cars. But on TV, I was not compelled to watch him. Maybe its his looks. Maybe he came across as a little exasperated that he wasn't the focus of the show. I really think Matt can be the next Andy Wilman if he wants to be. But I think his time in front of the camera has got to end. Matt's not a performer but I think he could lead a TV show from behind the scenes.

Everyone knows Dan Neill's writing credentials. No one doubts his skill as a wordsmith. But that absolutely did NOT translate to TV. He is short, skinny, a bit of twerp, and looked absolutely ridiculous in a driving suit. It seemed like the show producers wanted him to be "the driver". Like Matt, he probably has great concepts for a car show but realizing those concepts cannot take place in front of a camera for him.

So.... three car guys, all who feel they have fantastic ideas for a great car TV show. Problem is, they canceled each other out. The fact that none of them could execute their creative input proves they were ineffective as a group. None were compelling to watch individually.

One of the big reasons TGUK is a global success is because the show appeals to people who are not into cars. It's the personalities of the presenters, their interactions, their on camera style, that makes the show interesting. The Car Show was show made by car guys for car guys. That should have been a great foundation for the show's potential success. But it came across as The Man Show (starring Adam Carolla and a couple other guys) with cars instead of bouncing girls. Next time, perhaps find a better show to model against.

So, "montego" is the password for action? I'm gonna have to try that on dollar drink night at the club. See what kind of action I can get with a password and 5 bucks.
There is one person who isn't crying......

Sandy Wong.

That looks like him, bringing up the rear.

I've sold 4 "Christmas" cars this month. None new, all used, but fellow salespersons have had several new cars sold as gifts.

Most are planned and timed around Xmas. Haven't had an impulse gift car buy this year. So far best one has been new hubby buying the new wife an almost-new BMW 3 series convertible. Yesterday, it was a fiance helping his bride-to-be get a newish Nissan.

Folks buying themselves "gift cars" around Xmas or their birthday is not uncommon.

Take a tip from Nancy Reagan - Just Say No.
Good Lord, is this true or what?

KBB can be incredibly out of touch with market reality. It's a shame they have become the de facto source for used car values.

You know when KBB is way out to lunch on their values when they send hoards of staffers to auctions and furiously record transaction prices. If I were a dealer and their worthless data was screwing up my deals, why would I advertise with them?
The only sales idiot that would do this is one who doesn't care about his income or will soon be fired for lack of performance. Women buy over 50% of the cars sold in the US, and influence over 80% of the purchases.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it shouldn't come from a serious pro. But, all kinds of douchebags are in the car biz.
Good, basic advice but only applies to a very small percentage of customers.

Very, very, very few people walk into my store with plenty of cash on hand AND stellar credit. For my customers, it's maybe 10-15% of them. This is more of an e-car forum poster fantasy than gritty reality.

Those who are in this elite group don't play games with the F&I person. They don't have time and if it backfires, it causes more problems that it solves. Those that try to pull this stunt are not as smart as they think they are. Typically, the F&I manager is the best salesperson in the store, so they've seen this bait & switch tactic many times and know how to counter it.

So, good advice for the clueless masses, but they almost never have lots of cash and great credit. Those that do are smarter than this and play a more sophisticated game, or don't play at all (the really smart move).
That's possible. And whether the spread is $800 or $450 or whatever, the point is buyers who wait to buy an extended warranty will very likely pay more for it. Why do that at all when the warranty can be canceled and refunded?

And it doesn't change the fact that waiting requires a cash purchase for the warranty instead of rolling it into the loan. Over 80% of my customers finance, including those with high incomes and plenty of cash-on-hand. Buying upfront protects the investment from Day One, mitigates the risk, and provides an exit strategy.

Now, does the $300 deductible work best for you, or did you want to stay with the $50 deductible and 150,000 mile service plan?
Two issues with this piece of advice:

1. As you said, the price goes up if you wait. Almost no one manages their money as detailed as you described. That $1200 warranty can cost $2000 or more if purchased later. No a whole lot of people have that kind of cash, and most will just continue to risk it and keep the 2 grand.

2. By waiting the warranty cost can't be rolled into the loan. Most people can swing an extra $30 per month but don't have the $2000 to kick down after a couple years of ownership.

Buyers are better off buying the warranty at time of car purchase, and canceling it later if they feel it's not valuable. Check to see first, but most warranties I am familiar with can be canceled with a pro-rated refund plus a processing fee. If financed, the warranty refund amount is taken off the outstanding loan balance (IOW, the payment is not lowered, the amount owed on the loan is).
As a fellow car salesperson, thanks for your post. I hope Jalops read it and take it to heart.

Prior to working in the car biz I would have debated your assertions. Now, after a couple years working 250 hours per month dealing with the car buying public, your words ring true.
"....and remember, Jesus saves but George Nelson withdraws!"
If GT500 buyers cared what the average person thought, they'd buy a Lexus or BMW or other superficial status symbol. As someone who deals with the average car buying person daily, I can tell you they know nothing about cars beyond the brand, the color, and if it looks new. Who cares if they get it or not?

The bigger concern is that you're not getting it. Perhaps it's a little on the early side where you're at. I like Rockstar Rehab in the AM.
Slow? My boss had a later XR4Ti and it could hit 130 on I-15 headed toward Vegas. So maybe not all that slow. How about Not Quick?

Perspective? Yours is a lot different than mine.

In the 80's I was very much into Fords and Ford performance. I drove all these cars regularly when they were brand new. One day I drove a XR4Ti, SVO Mustang, and Mustang GT consecutively. The Merkur was not a bad car but not on the same performance level. The best thing about it was its unique style; very 80's Euro. It drove and handled unlike any Mustang of its era, much more sophisticated.

A good friend at the time bought a brand new Mustang LX 4 cyl in 1986 in Poo Brown Metallic, so I understand your comparison. My Lynx XR3 would easily out run his car, but we remained friends if only because of his super hot and sexy sister.

My brother had an '85 TBird turbo 5 speed and I clearly remember driving it to Santa Ana Lincoln Mercury in Tustin, taking a XR4Ti for a long test drive, and feeling the TBird was the better car all around.

The XR4Ti was not a bad car, just not competitive and a hard sell. The Scorpio was terrible.
I remember these cars well when they were new. The XR4Ti was an interesting, if slow and overpriced, alternative to.... something. I dunno, maybe a Saab 900?

The Scorpio was pathetic, though. Boring to look at, boring to drive, way overpriced for what it was, and totally uncompetitive with other Euro cars of its time. The fact that they were sold at select Mercury dealers just added to the misery. For a couple thou more a Saab 9000 would absolutely blow the doors off a Scorpio and had more street cache. For about the same price an Acura Legend was better made, and more reliable.

Too many people focus on the fact they were sold along side Grand Marquis' and Sables. I bought a new Mercury Lynx XR3 in 1986 and did not have the "white belt and loafers" experience. Bottom line is these cars were uncompetitive from the get-go. Selling them in downtown Ironic Hipsterville or Power Yuppie USA would not have saved them.

CP when new, CP today, CP forever.
You can't think up any other TG memes? Try again. Honestly, how hard can it be?