Are you saying Jalopnik is full of automotive morons that do not want to be confused with the facts?
Attention: "graverobber"
Stop picking on Italian cars in an effort to gain readership. Not gonna work, the retarded writing style, perpetuation of car myths with no visible of support..
It might be better to simply write in a more down to earth style based on hard facts rather than perpetuated car folk myths..
1976 Alfetta's had 1779cc NOT 1962 cc as you stated. The larger engine did not happen until 1979.
SPICA injection is very reliable despite what you claim when the system is properly cared for.
Most every Euro RWD car from this era uses rubber donuts in the main drive shaft as isolators.
As for rust, better take a closer look at your favorite Euro brand from this era.. you might discover lot of RUST and broke metal beneath that shiny, glowing coat of paint.
BTW, Alfa Romeos make good LeMons cars..
[jalopnik.com]
Just like your post on the X1/9, this one is also full of factual errors...
Stop picking on Italian cars in an effort to gain readership. Not gonna work, the retarded writing style, perpetuation of car myths with no visible of support..
It might be better to simply write in a more down to earth style based on hard facts rather than perpetuated car folk myths..
1976 Alfetta's had 1779cc NOT 1962 cc as you stated. The larger engine did not happen until 1979.
SPICA injection is very reliable despite what you claim when the system is properly cared for.
Most every Euro RWD car from this era uses rubber donuts in the main drive shaft as isolators.
As for rust, better take a closer look at your favorite Euro brand from this era.. you might discover lot of RUST and broke metal beneath that shiny, glowing coat of paint.
BTW, Alfa Romeos make good LeMons cars..
[jalopnik.com]
Just like your post on the X1/9, this one is also full of factual errors...
Have you even owned one of these, or are you just another one of those arm-chair, key board hacking gear heads with no actual real world experience..
It sounds like you're gunning for a job in auto media by stirring up Italian car myths and feeding on them despite the truth and reality of these cars.
It sounds like you're gunning for a job in auto media by stirring up Italian car myths and feeding on them despite the truth and reality of these cars.
Lesser expensive cars precious cars like Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Mercedes and etc tend to live indoors during the salty times of the year removing them from the corrosive salty treatment while cheap cars tend to be forced to bear the harsh salty road conditions and driven mercilessly in these conditions. Beyond being driven in these conditions, they are usually not washed after salty road exposure. In cars like the Mercedes of the same vintage of this X1/9, the German's did not event primer the internal areas of sheet steel which causes these cars to rust from the inside out. While the good quality paint gives the owner a false perception of the car being totally rust free while the car is actually rusting from the inside out. This fact also holds true for a good number of German cars... until they began to dip galvanize the bodies.
If you discover rust on an X1/9, it is pretty much what you see. The have the same degree of corrosion protection that was the industry accepted standards from that era.
Facts are, car manufactures were not overly concerned with corrosion protection until the later part of the 1970's. Even Bertone significantly improved the corrosion protection of the X1/9 in later production. Cut apart an early x1/9 and a mid-80's X1/9 and the difference in corrosion protection is readily apparent. There is also a cost involved, keep in mind the X1/9 was never meant to be sold in the same market segment as say a Porsche 911..
It is easy for car folks to simply judge and continue hear-say with no burden to factual proof.
For your entertainment, here is what rusty Porsche911's look like.. Even with this degree of rust, many of these seriously rusty 911' s will be repaired, painted and put back on the car market due to their market value and parts availability. Lesser cars that have this degree of rust damage will simply meet Mr. Metal crusher and Mr. Bessemer
[www.911t.org]
There are many more examples of rust on similar vintage cars as this X1/9..
If you discover rust on an X1/9, it is pretty much what you see. The have the same degree of corrosion protection that was the industry accepted standards from that era.
Facts are, car manufactures were not overly concerned with corrosion protection until the later part of the 1970's. Even Bertone significantly improved the corrosion protection of the X1/9 in later production. Cut apart an early x1/9 and a mid-80's X1/9 and the difference in corrosion protection is readily apparent. There is also a cost involved, keep in mind the X1/9 was never meant to be sold in the same market segment as say a Porsche 911..
It is easy for car folks to simply judge and continue hear-say with no burden to factual proof.
For your entertainment, here is what rusty Porsche911's look like.. Even with this degree of rust, many of these seriously rusty 911' s will be repaired, painted and put back on the car market due to their market value and parts availability. Lesser cars that have this degree of rust damage will simply meet Mr. Metal crusher and Mr. Bessemer
[www.911t.org]
There are many more examples of rust on similar vintage cars as this X1/9..
One more note about the X1/9. Many of the parts designed for the x1/9 was used on other cars.. Tail light assembly is used on the Lotus Esprit, door handles and rear engine cover/decklid release used on the Lancia Stratos... If you believe the comment about the cheap door handles, these are the same door handles used on the legendary Stratos.. and they are a nice metal casting chrome plated for durability.. Later production X1/9 has the same metal (aluminum, not scrap pot metal zinc as found in Brit cars) casting door handles painted black.
These factual problems appear to be in nearly every article written by American journalist about the X1/9. The vast majority of articles I have read in the past decade about the x1/9 has been full of factual errors or omissions..and almost always NEGATIVE. If one goes back two decades or 20 years and more when the X1/9 was in production.. The x1/9 was one of the most liked and revered cars among all the car publications. Road & Track race more than one in Show Room Stock endurance racing and won more than once in class at the 24 Hours Of Nelson Ledges..
If the X1/9 was so fragile, un-reliable and crappy, how did more than one show room stock X1/9 win the 24 Hours Of Nelson Ledges... It was one of the more desirable endurance race cars from that era.
They make great LeMons race cars too when properly prepared and set up..
[jalopnik.com]
Do some research and read some of the old Road & Track, CAR, Motor Trend, Car & Driver and other car publication articles fro the time when the X1/9 was in production before you automotive writer folks being hacking away at your keyboard...
Or... are you automotive writer folks only interested in stirring up readership interest at the expense of a particular model of car...
These factual problems appear to be in nearly every article written by American journalist about the X1/9. The vast majority of articles I have read in the past decade about the x1/9 has been full of factual errors or omissions..and almost always NEGATIVE. If one goes back two decades or 20 years and more when the X1/9 was in production.. The x1/9 was one of the most liked and revered cars among all the car publications. Road & Track race more than one in Show Room Stock endurance racing and won more than once in class at the 24 Hours Of Nelson Ledges..
If the X1/9 was so fragile, un-reliable and crappy, how did more than one show room stock X1/9 win the 24 Hours Of Nelson Ledges... It was one of the more desirable endurance race cars from that era.
They make great LeMons race cars too when properly prepared and set up..
[jalopnik.com]
Do some research and read some of the old Road & Track, CAR, Motor Trend, Car & Driver and other car publication articles fro the time when the X1/9 was in production before you automotive writer folks being hacking away at your keyboard...
Or... are you automotive writer folks only interested in stirring up readership interest at the expense of a particular model of car...
This is post is from the OWNER OF THIS x1/9.. who for some reason not able to post:
"I tried to post this response...
but their site didn't accept it. Maybe too long?
That WAS my car. Good God in heaven! Man, oh man. Sweet skeevy scrunge biscuit! Don't -write- about... that which... you don't -know- about.
Why? Because every stat you quoted about my Fiat X1/9 was wrong! Do I mean many stats? Nope. Most stats? Nope. I don't. I mean every, single, solitary stat. Horsepower: wrong. Actual: 66 h.p. Overall length: wrong. Actual: 153.5 inches. State issuing registration: wrong. Actual: Massachusetts. Engine size: wrong. Actual: 1290cc from 1974 through 1978, increased to 1498cc in 1979 and remained there until production ceased in 1987. Even the snarky comment about the fragile "flipper door handles": wrong. In 1978, the door handles were made of steel, and were extremely durable. Factually speaking, even my dog knows more about the Fiat than you do, because while he doesn't have a solid command of the facts that you screwed up, and least he doesn't have any bad information. Moreover, he knows what it feels like to ride in the car, and he knows what the engine sounds like when I pull it into and out of the garage.
I'm an old guy, and old-fashioned, too. The phenomena of the instant internet expert confuses me. Example? A guy does a quickie write-up about a car, sounding for all the world like the dude who engineered the damn thing giving a heart-felt mea-culpa for all his design errors, and yet, he gets every fact wrong. I'm also fascinated when the self-appointed expert who has never seen a car, touched that car, or driven that car can inform the guy who has lived with said car for 16 years that he is "just plain bat**** crazypants" about what said car is worth. A car, any car, or any object for that matter, is worth whatever amount a reasonably patient seller and the most enthusiast available buyer can agree upon. Now, many people have seen this car who can accurately quote, off the top of their heads, all the stats that you botched in your write-up. And they have not just glanced at it, either. They have crawled over it, around it, under it, and have concluded that it is fairly priced. Could you be right, and those marque experts be wrong? Sure, anything's possible. For one thing, you're not biased by the facts. And as much as they admire the car, perhaps they just don't have the cash or the garage space or the understanding spouse that would make such a purchase possible. So, like the proverbial broken clock, you may be blessed with the accidental accuracy of the ignorant. But for a smart and talented young fellow, that seems like an awfully low bar to set for yourself.
To aim higher, perhaps, before you commence typing your next article, you could do research someplace other than the internet. Here's an idea: try books. Most of them were vetted by editors prior to publication. "
"I tried to post this response...
but their site didn't accept it. Maybe too long?
That WAS my car. Good God in heaven! Man, oh man. Sweet skeevy scrunge biscuit! Don't -write- about... that which... you don't -know- about.
Why? Because every stat you quoted about my Fiat X1/9 was wrong! Do I mean many stats? Nope. Most stats? Nope. I don't. I mean every, single, solitary stat. Horsepower: wrong. Actual: 66 h.p. Overall length: wrong. Actual: 153.5 inches. State issuing registration: wrong. Actual: Massachusetts. Engine size: wrong. Actual: 1290cc from 1974 through 1978, increased to 1498cc in 1979 and remained there until production ceased in 1987. Even the snarky comment about the fragile "flipper door handles": wrong. In 1978, the door handles were made of steel, and were extremely durable. Factually speaking, even my dog knows more about the Fiat than you do, because while he doesn't have a solid command of the facts that you screwed up, and least he doesn't have any bad information. Moreover, he knows what it feels like to ride in the car, and he knows what the engine sounds like when I pull it into and out of the garage.
I'm an old guy, and old-fashioned, too. The phenomena of the instant internet expert confuses me. Example? A guy does a quickie write-up about a car, sounding for all the world like the dude who engineered the damn thing giving a heart-felt mea-culpa for all his design errors, and yet, he gets every fact wrong. I'm also fascinated when the self-appointed expert who has never seen a car, touched that car, or driven that car can inform the guy who has lived with said car for 16 years that he is "just plain bat**** crazypants" about what said car is worth. A car, any car, or any object for that matter, is worth whatever amount a reasonably patient seller and the most enthusiast available buyer can agree upon. Now, many people have seen this car who can accurately quote, off the top of their heads, all the stats that you botched in your write-up. And they have not just glanced at it, either. They have crawled over it, around it, under it, and have concluded that it is fairly priced. Could you be right, and those marque experts be wrong? Sure, anything's possible. For one thing, you're not biased by the facts. And as much as they admire the car, perhaps they just don't have the cash or the garage space or the understanding spouse that would make such a purchase possible. So, like the proverbial broken clock, you may be blessed with the accidental accuracy of the ignorant. But for a smart and talented young fellow, that seems like an awfully low bar to set for yourself.
To aim higher, perhaps, before you commence typing your next article, you could do research someplace other than the internet. Here's an idea: try books. Most of them were vetted by editors prior to publication. "
X1/9s have been mentioned on Jalopnik before... For all those only interested in going FAST..
This Jalopnik post on the X1/9 would be it.
[jalopnik.com]
If the claims that the X1/9 is a fragile, un-reliable rust bucket is fact .. How did Momi create this 800+ Bhp x1/9 without significant chassis modifications..??..
Details about this x1/9 is in the discussion post..
Many times cars are always judged only by how the car was delivered, never considering what was designed into the chassis and if the car in question ever had any racing success..
In the case of the x1/9.. the chassis is FAR better than most would ever know. Part of FIAT management despised the X1/9 and had to work on it due to orders from G. Agnelli. G. Agnelli owned a x1/9 as a daily driver back in the day.. gave Niki Lada the ride of his life in it on the streets of Italy.. Niki Lada owned an X1/9 so did Gilles Villeneuve and others..
The x1/9 chassis was designed (with help from Puleo an engineer from FIAT who also designed the Lancia Stratos chassis) and built by Bertone from day one. FIAT provided mechanicals and other peripheral support during it's production.
FIAT prohibited Bertone from officially racing the X1/9 and allowing any other engine/transaxle options during it's production life. The only engine/transaxle up grade was an the 1500cc/5speed variant in 79' over the original 1300cc/4 speed.
This Jalopnik post on the X1/9 would be it.
[jalopnik.com]
If the claims that the X1/9 is a fragile, un-reliable rust bucket is fact .. How did Momi create this 800+ Bhp x1/9 without significant chassis modifications..??..
Details about this x1/9 is in the discussion post..
Many times cars are always judged only by how the car was delivered, never considering what was designed into the chassis and if the car in question ever had any racing success..
In the case of the x1/9.. the chassis is FAR better than most would ever know. Part of FIAT management despised the X1/9 and had to work on it due to orders from G. Agnelli. G. Agnelli owned a x1/9 as a daily driver back in the day.. gave Niki Lada the ride of his life in it on the streets of Italy.. Niki Lada owned an X1/9 so did Gilles Villeneuve and others..
The x1/9 chassis was designed (with help from Puleo an engineer from FIAT who also designed the Lancia Stratos chassis) and built by Bertone from day one. FIAT provided mechanicals and other peripheral support during it's production.
FIAT prohibited Bertone from officially racing the X1/9 and allowing any other engine/transaxle options during it's production life. The only engine/transaxle up grade was an the 1500cc/5speed variant in 79' over the original 1300cc/4 speed.
We need to get you a nice circa 70's Chrysler Muscle car... These were the best Detroit Iron from that era.
Six dis-grunted owners is all the factual evidence and proof you can come up with?
Try harder..
I own a 74' x1/9 and there are more of these out there than you might ever imagine.
Some are in far better condition than this 78'
Try harder..
I own a 74' x1/9 and there are more of these out there than you might ever imagine.
Some are in far better condition than this 78'
It is smog legal to install a Honda K20A (225 Bhp makes the x1/9 chassis and driver smile) and register it in California.
You kidding, we own a Miata and X1/9.. Both are equally reliable daily drivers. Miata has a power advantage (The Miata is simply a newer design than the Bertone/FIAT) over the X1/9, the chassis is WAY better than the Miata chassis.
You are another who claims rust, but have you really looked.. I suspect you have never cut an x1/9 apart to see precisely how it is built.. Let's cut apart a Miata and X1/9 then compare them to see if your claim is correct.
Did you know corrosion protection during the production life of the X1/9 evolved? later production x1/9s have equal corrosion and paint to any European car produced. Another fact, FIAT never built the chassis, they were built by Bertone since day one. Naive you are about the X1/9.
Another test would be a head on barrier test at 50 Mph.. The Miata will NOT pass and will result in driver and passenger fatality. The same test with the X1/9, driver and passenger will survive. Better yet, let's try a 80 Mph roll over and see what happend to the Miata and it's occupants..
During the safety driven era of the 70's, only two cars passed the proposed 50 Mph barrier and 80 Mph roll over.. The Volvo 240 series and the X1/9..
Unless you have actual hard experience and technical knowledge of both cars, better stop offering empty claims with no means of proving the facts.
You are another who claims rust, but have you really looked.. I suspect you have never cut an x1/9 apart to see precisely how it is built.. Let's cut apart a Miata and X1/9 then compare them to see if your claim is correct.
Did you know corrosion protection during the production life of the X1/9 evolved? later production x1/9s have equal corrosion and paint to any European car produced. Another fact, FIAT never built the chassis, they were built by Bertone since day one. Naive you are about the X1/9.
Another test would be a head on barrier test at 50 Mph.. The Miata will NOT pass and will result in driver and passenger fatality. The same test with the X1/9, driver and passenger will survive. Better yet, let's try a 80 Mph roll over and see what happend to the Miata and it's occupants..
During the safety driven era of the 70's, only two cars passed the proposed 50 Mph barrier and 80 Mph roll over.. The Volvo 240 series and the X1/9..
Unless you have actual hard experience and technical knowledge of both cars, better stop offering empty claims with no means of proving the facts.
Little you know about the x1/9...
Mazda used an Lotus Elan, FIAT 124 spider, X1/9, MGB as reference mules. The series one Miata styling was cleped from the Elan down to it's door handles, Convertible top is from a 124 spider, Exhaust note from the MGB, and they tried their darn-est to copy the chassis dynamics of the Elan & x1/9..with limited success..
The Miata simply does not have the chassis rigidity of the Lotus Elan or X1/9.. unless a whole lot of changes are made.. It is the primary reason why Miatas have a crappy ride regardless of how they are set up.
When folks say the X1/9 is crap they have no idea of what they are yaking about..
Did you know the three primary engineers responsible for the current FORD, GT-40 all owned and raced x1/9s... I assure you that history had an effect on the chassis dynamics of the current GT-40.
And, the list of famous race car personalities who admired the X1/9 chassis is long..
So, for you stubborn gear heads that have been overly influenced by marketing and too much power for too little money and crappy chassis that appear to perform.. will never know what the x/19 chassis is capable of or can do.
Mazda used an Lotus Elan, FIAT 124 spider, X1/9, MGB as reference mules. The series one Miata styling was cleped from the Elan down to it's door handles, Convertible top is from a 124 spider, Exhaust note from the MGB, and they tried their darn-est to copy the chassis dynamics of the Elan & x1/9..with limited success..
The Miata simply does not have the chassis rigidity of the Lotus Elan or X1/9.. unless a whole lot of changes are made.. It is the primary reason why Miatas have a crappy ride regardless of how they are set up.
When folks say the X1/9 is crap they have no idea of what they are yaking about..
Did you know the three primary engineers responsible for the current FORD, GT-40 all owned and raced x1/9s... I assure you that history had an effect on the chassis dynamics of the current GT-40.
And, the list of famous race car personalities who admired the X1/9 chassis is long..
So, for you stubborn gear heads that have been overly influenced by marketing and too much power for too little money and crappy chassis that appear to perform.. will never know what the x/19 chassis is capable of or can do.
I'll prove you wrong in every way. What do you offer as hard evidence to prove your claims about the x1/9?
Yes, it has been done.. many times.. Better yet, a Honda K series.
This is a Honda K20A powered x1/9 and Ferrari F430.. out on the road.
This is a Honda K20A powered x1/9 and Ferrari F430.. out on the road.
Name your favorite car brand and I'll show you it's rusty history.
The burden of proof rest with you..
The burden of proof rest with you..
There are x1/9 owners who are well over 6ft tall and they fit..
How big and tall are you?
How big and tall are you?
Same is true for Ferrari 308 and a host of other cars that used timing belts. If the timing belt is changed every 30,000 miles as recommended by the service schedule there are NO problems.
The timing belt problem is WAY over blown as there are many cars past and present with the same identical problem.
Difference here, FIAT was the first to use timing belts in mass production at a time when timing chains & gears in the block were the norm.. Being the first to innovate came with a price for FIAT..
The timing belt problem is WAY over blown as there are many cars past and present with the same identical problem.
Difference here, FIAT was the first to use timing belts in mass production at a time when timing chains & gears in the block were the norm.. Being the first to innovate came with a price for FIAT..
Again all you car folks continue to perpetuate the rusty FIAT myth.. Fact is, most every European suffered from nearly identical rust problems. There is plenty of proof of this on the web showing how rusty every one of these vintage European cars are..
Post more about rusty FIAT's.. I'll post about Rusty Alfa, Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo, Porsche's, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Toyota, Datsun, Honda, Triumph, Rover, Jaguar, MG, Healey, and all else from Europe..
As for reliability.. The X1/9 was no worst than other cars from this era. Have all you gear heads forgotten how awful they all were???
I'll also point out the X1/9 chassis was designed and built by Bertone from day one. FIAT was a very un-willing partner in this endevor and never allowed proper development of this design. The group who designed the X1/9 were the same group at Bertone who worked on the Lambo Miura.. The X1/9 was the second mid-engine car Bertone designed and they put most of what they learned from designing the Miura into the X1/9.
Both the Toyota MR2, Fiero, Lotus Elise/Exige and many others were based on the X1/9 design concept of packing a FWD engine/transaxle into a mid-engine car. Or, the X1/9 was the production design that started it all.
For all you nay-sayers who have no idea of what this chassis is capable of and what the X1/9 could have been if FIAT management would have allowed, have a look at this previous Jalopnik write up on the "Fastest Street Legal Car In Israel"
[jalopnik.com]
Post more about rusty FIAT's.. I'll post about Rusty Alfa, Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo, Porsche's, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Toyota, Datsun, Honda, Triumph, Rover, Jaguar, MG, Healey, and all else from Europe..
As for reliability.. The X1/9 was no worst than other cars from this era. Have all you gear heads forgotten how awful they all were???
I'll also point out the X1/9 chassis was designed and built by Bertone from day one. FIAT was a very un-willing partner in this endevor and never allowed proper development of this design. The group who designed the X1/9 were the same group at Bertone who worked on the Lambo Miura.. The X1/9 was the second mid-engine car Bertone designed and they put most of what they learned from designing the Miura into the X1/9.
Both the Toyota MR2, Fiero, Lotus Elise/Exige and many others were based on the X1/9 design concept of packing a FWD engine/transaxle into a mid-engine car. Or, the X1/9 was the production design that started it all.
For all you nay-sayers who have no idea of what this chassis is capable of and what the X1/9 could have been if FIAT management would have allowed, have a look at this previous Jalopnik write up on the "Fastest Street Legal Car In Israel"
[jalopnik.com]
@M5Manny:
Agreed, many his soul Rest In Peace.
Agreed, many his soul Rest In Peace.
@GrandmaSideways:
Prove that yaking on the cell while driving is not equal to being intoxicated.
The burden of proof lies on your evidence provided for all to examine in great detail.
Prove that yaking on the cell while driving is not equal to being intoxicated.
The burden of proof lies on your evidence provided for all to examine in great detail.
