Wow. Both this and the Accord seem pretty narrowly focused on the Jalopnik Suitability Parameter scale. Much more so than any other vehicle I remember.

@FreeMan:

Yet ironically sell to the broadest range of people.

Shoot it in the face!

Because you've pointed it out twice now, just where do you think most of the profits go once the Ohio plantworkers have been paid (paid less than their MI counterparts for those pro-union types)? What appears to be an assertion that these US built transplants are just as "American" as the Big 3 is pretty weak. They are better than a true import, but not equivalant.

By that logic all cars are domestic as somebody gets paid in this country to get them to you. (dealerships, truck drivers, etc.)

much nicer gauge cluster than the accord.

@rlj676: it's about the plantworkers.

it's not about the executive board members..

A vasectomy? You're talking about the Truck Nutz...

Right?

Meanwhile, they are offering $4500 cash to 2008 Pilot buyers, and thats once you negotiate down to invocie. Quite a deal, even for an outgoing model.

I actually don't hate the looks, although the last SUV I owned was a first gen Montero, so the whole box on wheels thing seems to be just my taste. I just want my utility vehicle to be useful and not just pretty, any extra curves cut down on cargo space and if I want a sports car I won't buy a 6-8 passenger vehicle, I'll buy a car.

Bush and Hitler? I thought I was reading the Consumerist by mistake.

@Unregular: That's his point.

The wealth of the company is built up in its home country and home town.

Sure, plants supply blue-collar jobs, but the executives/engineers/designers that make a lot more money (and do a lot more for their local economies) still tend to reside overseas on the "import" brands.

I root for the home team...but have a hard time being actually motivated to buy their products. (Really pulling for that G8 wagon)

I think the only reason I wouldn't buy something like this--apart from the fuel economy/lack of diesel--is that I'd automatically be "the guy with the truck" AND the guy impressed into people-hauling duties.

So if you have 3+ kids, it seems great. But otherwise it just seems like a recipe for being a vehicular doormat.

@Unregular:

Well, if that's someone's real feelings than they should think the non-union ones in Ohio are getting taken advantage of.

There are many more jobs besides the big wigs that are handled in Japan vs US as well, not to mention shareholders-many of whom are you and your parents in various retirement funds, etc.

@rlj676: Can't we just buy a car based on the car and not where it comes from? I mean, it's a global economy and chances are that a good portion of the raw materials that make an 'American' car are imported anyways.

Take note, Wes is typing with one hand, but not for the usual reason...

@Neener:

You are free to do as you please, and many parts are global.

I'm just referencing the comments made by Wes in both of these Honda reviews implying the Ohio built Honda's are as "American" as the Detroit offerings. If that's not his intent, than it is off-topic here.

I think I qualify as a "true Jalop" (well with the caveat that I don't have a 'mino or plan to)...and I happen to love the Pilot for what it is and what it isn't. And yes, we put our money where my mouth is.

Our 2003 Pilot is a great vehicle for longer roadtrips with my whole family. The DVD system keeps the kids entertained while the wife and I catch up on audiobooks or just plain old conversation (have kids and you'll know what I mean). With some mods (Airlift 1000 and Electric Brake Controller), it's a great tow vehicle for the Seven on an open trailer.

What it isn't is crazy expensive for what you get. I think we paid in the low $30Ks for a loaded EX-L with DVD. And I think you still can get that sort of deal. Compare this to to an non sporty import like XC90 or LR3 and it's a steal.

Believe me, I love the 9 passenger room of the Suburbans I've rented over the years...not to mention the amazing towing capacity. But I could live without the single digit MPG and those ridiculous non flat floor (they still have those, right?) third row seats.

That said, if they made the Odyssey in a 4WD (saved my life, man) we probably would have gotten one of those, just so we weren't "that SUV family". Oh, and did they have to make the 2009 so fug in the face?

@rlj676: but how do you feel about the gauge cluster?

the shirt and shoes you're wearing, the computer you're on, the chair you're sitting in - they are all MADE in another country, but the company's executives are here in the U.S.

this Honda is MADE in the U.S. by employed American blue collar workers, and the board members are in Japan.

which one of those is "better"?

wow, that is the worst looking ac/radio gauge cluster i have ever seen! Especially odd because that tiny info screen under the speedo looks sort of cool.

How about you just negotiate the best price you can on the car you want, then make a $500 donation to the domestic automaker of your choice?

That way, they get infinite profit margin. Which is way better than Honda's profit margin.

to be clear, i agree that the center stack is horrific... i like the speedo/tach gauge cluster. not that center stack.

phew.

@Unregular:

Well, I don't know how comparing shoes to cars makes sense.

I'm comparing cars to cars, and one is more beneficial to the country/region than another, that's all. Like I said, this is better than an import, but not the same as an "American car".

And for what it's worth if given an option I do try to buy "Made in good ol US of A" if economically feasible. But in this case the American brands are selling at a discount, unlike many other industries.

@rlj676: how patriotic is it to buy a domestic car when GM averages a loss of thousands of dollars per vehicle? buying American is like stealing bread from UAW babies

@rlj676: Don't the profits (after everyone's been paid, including the execs) go to the shareholders of the company? And I know at least Honda (and I presume Toyota and Nissan) operate design and engineering centers in the U.S., so it's not just blue collar workers getting paid over here.

@NICKNICK:

Touche'

@rlj676: and I'D argue that buying American just to "benefit the country" can do just the opposite...

When Americans buy american just because, then the American car makers get to sit back and use that reasoning as a crutch to inflate their sales. They get fat and happy, all the while makers in other nations have to BUILD BETTER CARS in order to compete. sound familiar?

If we all bought the BEST CAR out there, despite where it was made, that would force the US manufacturers to compete on an even playing level (they'd have no more crutch from the buyers corporate welfare) and... build better cars!

which, i indeed think, is what we're seeing today. so many have said they'd NEVER buy american that perhaps we are witnessing the reverse these days (see: malibu vs. accord)

@elwood:

Yes, to the shareholders. Which was my point, that they also have a stake, and you'd be surprised at how many retirement funds (of teachers, firefighters, etc) are heavily invested as shareholders.

Yep, there is work being done here by the transplants, and it isn't insignifacant. It's still not equal though, as up till now Big 3 cars were designed entirely here 99% of the time, not just tweaked for the market by a small group here.

Like I've said the transplants are better than pure imports, but not EQUAL in benefit.

That is a pretty homely cluster, but at least the normally wasted room in the bottom of the speedometer was put to good use....

@Unregular:

Agreed. Competition is beneficial for all.

I'm just referring to repeated implication that the transplants are just as beneficial to the economy, etc, which I disagree with.

I would never by a car just because it is American. However, there are many people who refuse to consider one because of this, and then they use the transplant explanation to rationalize if they feel "bad".

Transplants are good, but not better.

@Unregular: I think people who said they'd never buy American did so because of the quality issues encountered with domestic automobiles in the 80's and early 90's. But buying American just to support American companies is just non-government-sponsored protectionism, and doesn't help anyone committed to operating in a free market economy.

@elwood: exactly my point.

@Unregular: Yeah, sometimes I like to agree with people, except use different words. It makes me feel smarter than just saying "Right on, dude!"

I'd like to jump in on the two threads that are going on here:

Agreed, the center stack is ugly. It looks like the head of a cartoon baby dinosaur that has received an unpleasant surprise. In addition; the rear-center console looks like the Iron Giant's head. Neither of these are deal killers about this car. I really kind of like the practicality of the Pilot, and may give it a closer look when thinking about the next family truckster.

Regarding buying American; yes, by all means buy American-made products. At the very least, put American-made on your selection list. Don't buy specifically because it's built in the U.S. of A, and go ahead and buy foreign if that's the best product you can find. Don't buy based on lowest denominator price because somebody, somewhere is paying that differential for you. Be a savvy shopper- know what things cost, where the money goes, and who is benefitting from your purchase.

When making a durable good purchase, bother to ask where it is built. If you're not happy with the source, ask for a different brand or model built somewhere else.

It's not just that buying foreign-made encourages U.S. companies to make more competitive products. America has some of the highest-productivity workers on the planet. We also expect a living wage, responsible and ethical corporations and health and safety standards unknown in the third world. These, and legacy costs drive up the cost of doing business for American manufacturers, making it non-competitive to make products in the U.S. How can a UAW worker compete with a guy working with an AK47 shoved in the back of his head? And, yes, I know that is not a literal example, but still there exists a lot of indentured servitude in the world today.

We have lost our manufacturing base as the driving force in our economy, it having been replaced by a fee-driven one that is not sustainable. Read Bad Money by Kevin Phillips: [www.post-gazette.com] It'll scare the crap out of you.

Now, about that grill...

@rlj676: So, do you complain just as much about the poor folks in other markets that send their money spent on Holdens and Opels back to Detroit?

@DrivingPosition:

Where am I complaining about what people buy? Buy what's best. Just don't claim a transplant is equivalant or better than an American nameplate for this country.

Also, that Opel or Holden has a whole design/engineering group there specifically for that region/make. Unlike the Japanese, who long ago figured out the benefits of global commonization, the Big 3 just reproduced themselves in various parts of the world and created new companies top to bottom (part of the problem now). The "profits" get sent back here, but not jobs, etc.

Oh, and I don't mind the center stack or cluster that much, but the shifter is just bizzarre to me.

The sad truth of the matter is that most US companies don't give a damn who builds their stuff. There is no incentive for keeping Americans working. The incentive is to lay off Americans and get some guy in a cave to do it for pennies a day.

I don't feel obligated to buy an American car because it's American. I feel obligated to try and find something I like in order to keep some people working here. The companies can kiss my ass. Brand loyalty went out the window with job security. I tend to buy GM because this is a GM town and prices/repairs are cheap/easy.

I'm not an economist but it seems like we should really be making something besides caskets for kids dressed like soldiers and hard on pills.

I actually don't find it that revolting. It has a sort of grown up Element look with a little (unfortunate) Nissan Armada thrown in.

I don't get the grille within the grille though. Never have. Just say no to additional silver-painted plastic.

@mytdawg: I'm not an economist but it seems like we should really be making something besides caskets for kids dressed like soldiers and hard-on pills.

Aren't those lyrics from a James Taylor song?

If you ever get a chance and you really have no life, find a movie called "Head Office". It was a HBO movie (I believe) and it had a bunch of people in it including Michael O'Donohue. It was long before Office Space and I think it's much funnier.

It has a great line from a General/Dictator type guy along the lines of "We are a poor country, we cannot afford both the free press and the Mercedes, eh? We can only afford the Mercedes..."

@Malaise-era Ash: Nah, he would have made it rhyme or it would have a better cadence.

@rlj676: Honda and Toyota do not have two massive campuses in Torrance California employing these - more superior to blue collar - white collar workers. They also don't have an R&D centre there. They also don't have another R&D centre in Ohio on a massive plot of land with a test track. And they didn't just build a design studio for Acura in California. Honda and Toyota exuctives are overseas robots, not US citizens, but do a search for vice president and some Japanese brand in it, and you'll see lots of your countryfolk. And don't forget that the factories have suppliers from the US, most of which are US owned, and they also have your highly prized executives born in the red-white-and-blue.

Meanwhile, the Chevy Aveo with a "support our troops" ribbon on the back is made and designed in Korea, but yeah, you gotta keep it real here in the USofA.

@rlj676: What?

So you're saying that the Pilot and other similar vehicles are designed and engineered in Japan? I think a bunch of people who worked on the U.S. model Accord, Odyssey, Ridgeline, and Pilot would like to talk to you about that.

As far as platform sharing (which is what I think you're referring to there), have you been keeping up with GM's fraternity of global platforms?

@Citroen_SM: Manufacturing's gone global, and it's throwing a wrench in the world view of a lot of people. Some American companies are also having trouble adapting to the competition, but that's the way the game happens.

@Citroen_SM: @DrivingPosition: His point is that the US is not their home base. Thats it.

He said that pretty clearly.

I want to put both of my palms and put them against the center stack and just PRESS. To see how many buttons I can mash with my palms at one time. Between this and the accord, Honda really should be raked over the coals in terms of ergonomics and usability. Buttons buttons buttons. And two similarly sized knobs placed close together that control two totally different things? Honda has lost the path these days. If GM had designed as poor an interior layout like this . . . .