If there were redlight cameras in my town, I'm pretty sure I'd slam on my brakes for every yellow (abundance of caution, yo!). That would probably cause the mom in the Suburban behind me to total my car.

Red light runners suck, but there's a lot of difference between someone trying to clear the intersection quickly and someone flagrantly running a red at mid-cycle. At least a live cop can make that distinction on the spot. Sort of the same theory behind why we still have actual people in missile silos and B-52s.

The only winning strategy is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

Take the profit out of traffic enforcement (and the lobbying of the insurance industry) and see just how unimportant it is to govt.

@ash78: That panic stop strategy is actually illegal in some jurisdictions. If you were to panic stop, and yoga mom was to flatten you with her Burban, you would be at fault. And if you'da run the red, you'da been at fault for that too.

I hate government.

@Pope Dearthair the Awesometh: My driving instructor taught me to treat a yellow light like a red light. I brake when I see it, but slowly and softly. A Montreal policeman once told me that a yellow light lasts between five and eight seconds.

In Houston these things are getting more and more common. My fiancée got a ticket a while back from one.
On another note, there's this light in our old neighborhood in the ghetto that doesn't actually have a camera, but is timed so that one light turns green at the precise instant the other light turns red after a very short yellow light. I'm convinced it's their attempt at population control. I'm always scared to go through that light, always wait about 3 seconds to go through as there's a red light runner about 3/4 of the time.

@Pope Dearthait the Awesometh: Please give us your Name, Address, and Phone #. We need to talk to you.

The Government

@Pope Dearthair the Awesometh: If only that were true. Rear ended a minivan in my del sol a few years back, (a week before I got the title in the mail after the final payment) and the cop didn't ticket either one of us. The minivan slammed on his brakes for a yellow light on a wet, cobblestone road. I didn't stand a chance.

Shenanigans!

@Pope Dearthair the Awesometh: I believe that rule's from the recent trend in "duck and jam" insurance fraud. Guys in crapboxes would swerve in front of Cadillacs and panic stop at a red light, incurring a backdoor shunt and getting a hefty settlement.

Just about every law has unintended consequences, unfortunately. At least they were able to catch these shady jurisdictions in the act.

After the last brouhaha about traffic light cameras here (I think a friend of Jonny's got a ticket in the mail and there were tomatoes thrown by both sides), I looked into the technology of these things.

From what I learned, there are generally sensors imbedded in the pavement...and distinctions are made between mid-cycle light runners and "within the box on yellow" folks. Of course, this is all from cursory web research.

That Nashville article is kinda old 5/2006. Still interesting through.

If only I was juvenile delinquent again..

[blog.wired.com]

[www.wsmv.com]

[www.speedcam.co.uk]

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The whole idea of red light cameras makes my blood boil. I actually avoid places with them. Screw government. Although I believe in honesty and fairness, or perhaps because I do, I do not cooperate with agents of the state. Lie because it's an adversarial system and government is authorized to lie to you.

We have the most fucked up government in the world; except for every other one.

@FLB: That is the problem FLB, that the independent companies who profit from the cameras get the yellow light timing REDUCED in order to INCREASE the number of tickets given out. If it was the same amount of time then no foul but multiple town/city governments have had it proven against them that they let the company reduce the yellow light time. Then the company profits from a cut of the ticket...

What stinks is that I live in the Metro Nashville region and have seen some of these cameras- here they put blue LED lights on top of the boxes (mounted high up on a pole) at some intersections.

These are fairly new in my area, so I'm not all book learn'd up on em...if someone else runs a red in my car while borrowing it, am I responsible for the ticket even if I wasn't driving, or even in the car? Do they take pictures of the drivers?

This may be a double

These are fairly new in my area, an I'm not all book learn'd up on em, so I've got a question: if someone borrows my car and runs a red, am I responsible for the ticket, even though I wasn't driving or even in the car? Do they take pictures of the drivers or just the plates?

"Red means stop, green means go, yellow means go very very fast."

Starman

That's just ridiculous! What, is some MBA working on trying to maximize profit in the traffic camera division? We need to stand up against this type of unfair (and daresay illegal) behavior.

@m3_of_doom: In Missouri you are responsible unless you rat out someone else.

Yep, unless you can prove that you weren't driving, and even in that case, you might still be liable.

Last time I was up at the in-laws in Maryland, I got a look at the new speed cameras that they've planted in the median. It's not just red-light cameras there anymore. I'm troubled.

In Knoxvile,TN a guy was caught for shooting out a camera that had caught him earlier in the day for running the light.

@workingonyourinvoice: All the traffic lights I have ever seen in Mexico are like that, so clearly the population control aspect doesn't work.

Then again, those traffic lights also flash the green light for a few seconds before it turns yellow, so you get extra notice that it's about to turn red.

All the lights I've seen in England flash the yellow (in addition to red) once the cross-traffic gets the red. This means you're free to go if pedestrians have cleared the crosswalk. So for traffic purposes, there's no red/green delay for safety. IIRC, Iceland is the same way. At the very least, the flashing yellow gives you a chance to put the car in gear and get ready.

As a yank, it was sort of awkward to start out during a red light, but that's the law.

I got one of those tickets in Calgary. The kicker we were 800kms away on the day of the violation with our car. Even showed my passport stamped, receipts as proof but still had to pay the ticket. Was somewhere around $175.

Look up your state's laws.

In Oregon and Washington, these are being killed by making formal complaints to the state traffic engineer.

If the yellow duration is too short, the tickets are invalid.

I used to be against these things, but I've gotten really sick of waiting 5+ seconds after the lights change for all the people running the red to pass. Nothing quite like missing your turn light because three assholes are running the red on the cross street.

@m3_of_doom: I don't know about where you are, but back home (Australia - NSW) you generally have to get a stat dec from the driver to pass the ticket from yourself to the other person.

As for red light cameras, I wouldn't have a problem with them if there was a standard procedure for the light cycle and the cameras, say a standard 5 sec yellow light, and then a 3 second delay between the light turning red and the camera starting (the 3 second delay is the delay between one light turning red and the other turning green in Australia). That way people going through the yellow and people turning across traffic (that'll be left turners for you, and right turners for those of us who drive on the correct side of the road) can clear the intersection, and only people deliberately going through the red would be booked.

@Captain Wrong: At one intersection on my former commute home, they delayed our green light by around 10s to allow for all of the people who kept going through the intersection on the red. They could have put up a camera (although in Sydney they are required to have warning signs before the intersection), but they decided to use a bit of common sense instead.

@Bee1: Well, yes and no. A guy in Knoxville shot one (took him 3 shots which is what allowed the cops to find him), but he had never gotten a ticket from it, nor had any member of his family. He was just being a "patriot".

The type of moron who casually runs a redlight ain't likely to notice the wee camera.

Q. How can you identify a cautious hedge fund manager?
A: He blows the horn in his BMW as he runs the redlight.

@FrankRizzo: Thanks for the update,I had seen it on the news the day it happened but had not seen any update on it.

@FLB: Your driving instructor has never been to Fargo, North Dakota, where traffic lights are usually 2-3 seconds, with up to 4 seconds on major roads. Good thing there aren't any red light cameras here (that I know of).

It makes me long for the days of old west mob justice. All the people who got a ticket from that short cycle yellow light camera, would band together, find the unscrupulous politician responsible (or at least who they thought was responsible, same difference to a mob) and hang him from set yellow light. Ahh the good ol days.

@Dr.Danger: Yeah, these shenanigans are cruel and tragic. Which wouldn't make them shenanigans, at all, really...

Evil shenanigans!

@dr zero: Hmm...I'm not sure how giving tacit approval to people running red lights is common sense.

"We'll be happy when the states figure out how to run their respective governments without traffic fines acting as unlevied taxes against the citizens."

Cuz places like Texas and Tennesse are such "big government/pro tax" states

I swear to God I'm gonna pistol whip the next guy who says shenanigans....

The great City of Dallas has 62 cameras. They are shutting down 25 percent of the cameras because they are not generating enough revenue. People are now obeying the law. I guess the City of Dallas did not figure that into the business plan. These stupid cameras are going off erratically where I live. The southbound cameras are taking pictures of east/west trafic. wtf??

[www.dallasnews.com]

This is only another in the long string of "if they can measure it, they can tax it" initiatives. New technology means that new things can be measured in new ways. That means we pay more.

Ever wonder why the push for machine-readable license plates, consumer research databases, digital communications and similar things? Now you know.

@workingonyourinvoice:

"Azureus Plugin Can Detect ISP BitTorrent Shenanigans"

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Let me get this straight. A gov't agency puts up the cameras with the stated goal of traffic safety. They then shorten the yellow to increase revenue.

Now there is no question that shortening the yellow will result in more people running the red light. This means more people will be in the intersection when crossing traffic gets a green.

All that the red light camera mafia needs to be put out of business is one lawsuit from someone who t-bones another car that had a short yellow to enhance revenue.

Forget about the folks who get caught running a stale yellow, this endangers completely innocent cross traffic.

If safety was the issue instead of revenue, we'd enforce traffic laws a whole lot differently than we do.

I definitely support these, or something like em, to ticket the bastards who end up in the middle of the intersection due to traffic, thereby stopping anyone from moving.

It's baaad here in the ATL.

In spite of all the volumes of research, and the fact that numerous cities have been dropping the cameras like a bad habit....the rotten [expletive deleted] mayor of Amarillo Texas STILL wants the goddamn things.

When everyone asked her why go through with it after Lubbock (100 miles to the South) chose to get rid of theirs. She said that Lubbock's traffic situation is different....it's different alright. Lubbock employs traffic engineers with half a brain.

What's even worse, this woman gets on the local talk radio show, where people have been calling in all week to say they don't want anything to do with these stupid cameras, and says that we'll only have 2 or 3 cameras. Later in the day after the city commission meeting we wind up with SIX of the damn things.

I would certainly pause at every yellow light in these cities! I'm glad that they were caught. Hopefully this will keep other areas from doing the same.