Jalopnik
In an agonizingly close race, the Rover SD1 beat the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow in yesterday's Choose Your Eternity poll, and it was telling that our British readers all seemed to fear/love the British Leyland product the most. Now we move on to an important question: Can you believe it's been since August that we've had a matchup of the two most recycled Detroit muscle archetypes ever, and that was a couple of hundred-buck 80s beaters? Today we're going to go back to the source of all things Camaro and Mustang, with a pair of cars from the makes' heydays: the 1960s! So put on "(Sittin' On The) Dock Of The Bay" for the 800,000th time, pretend the 60s in America weren't a nightmare of burning cities and Southeast Asian quagmires, and get ready for Mustang/Camaro Hell!
Now, since you can pretty much buy everything you need to build a '65 Mustang from scratch these days, thanks to a booming aftermarket catering to lovers of the little Falcon sibling, the only way to make a Mustang project hellish enough is to get one that's just on the borderline between "hopeless basket case" and "needs restoration." That way you'll be convinced that it's possible to get the project done, rather than just going out and buying a nicely restored '65 for half the total money cost (and one-thousandth the pain) of your project. So here we go- this 1965 Mustang has it all! It's got the nearly unreadable CAPS LOCK style so beloved by car sellers, it's got rust so bad that some body parts simply disappeared during blasting, it's got a confusing set of photos that may or may not show before-and-after versions of the same car, and- most important of all- there's a "HUGE BONUS INCLUDED!!!" You need to slog your way through endless headache-inducing ALLCAPS (in black, blue, and red font) before you find out that the bonus is... a rebuilt 302 that was put together a couple years ago and never started. But still... this car would be lots of fun with a nice paint job, a Paxton-ized 351W, and a suspension a few generations newer than the stagecoach rig it has now.
But let's say you're a Camaro person, someone who wouldn't be caught dead in a goddamn Mustang! Sure, if you'd just landed from another planet you might think they were pretty similar vehicles- leaf-spring rears, pushrod V8s, cool-looking styling touches- but so what? That's why I've searched high and low for a Camaro that somehow stands astride that possible/impossible project-car line in the same way as the Mustang... and this '67 seems to do just that. Hey, it's the first year of the Camaro! All those 140-horse '79 Z28s and V6-powered '85s can look to this car as their great-grandpappy! This seller eschews the ALLCAPS routine in favor the e.e. cummings no-caps style, so it's easier to extract useful information than it was with the Mustang. Information such as the fact that this is a 4-speed car, which is a big plus. But then there's a few bad-news items: the seller doesn't know anything about the engine, other than its V8-ness, and there's some question about the body (other than the massive systemic rust, there's the worrying statement "its a complete nose that was pulled from another car and its just bolted on with a few bolts"). Naturally, there's no paperwork on the car, but at least the frame rails are good! OK, so it's pretty rough... but you'll have several hundred engine types to choose from when it comes time to powering your Camaro project, because it's a Chevy! Imagine this car with the body miraculously fixed and a thousand-horse 292 six-banger under the hood. You know it's possible!
Comments
haha! camaro has a definitive lead (2 to 0)
die Mustang!
Camaro > Mustang except in the eighties.
From my research, I have establish that a craigslisted Camaro always becomes a "camero" which apparently makes it even more white-trashy.
I'd go with the Camaro with a Cummins bi-turbo setup. All hail our diesel overlords. How about a 10.8L M Series with a little bit of forced induction?
I want to combine the two, a Mustamero! Everybody will hate it equally.
I say Camaro, the description is full of utter hopelessness. It sounds like the whole car would fall to pieces if you sneezed too loud. The seller is desperately trying to come up with anything positive to say (the fenders are nice...), but has to back out of every comment (..aside from the dents).
Promise you'll never leave, Murilee. Promise!
@TX_law: My subscription to your newsletter begins today.
Fettle those Camaro inner arches and jam betwixt them a Mercedes-Benz OM423 V10 diesel. Sorry, a perverse fascination of mine.
No idea why I'm in a Camaro mood today, best vote quick befor I change my mind.
@B: Oh come on, wouldn't you rather have a Pontang?
Camaro!! There are just too many Mustangs out there. The Camaro will be more hellish in all areas except the engine.
Obviously the Camaro. As Better Off Dead showed us, they can be rebuilt in an afternoon by an appropriately motivated underage French girl. I wonder if the seller would be willing to throw in one of those?
Are you kidding me? Read the description on that slomaro. That thing is practically bailing wired together. At least the stang has had some body work done, and comes with a rebuilt 302 with a serpentine setup.
The Mustang ad states "PURCHASED SEVERAL YEARS AGO WITH ALL THE AMBITION TO MAKE A TRUE BARRET JACKSON PIECE"
Any ad that mentions Barret-Jackson is automatically the loser.
Because I'm sure B-J is just lining up for 6 cyl Mustang coupes with amateur restorations and random 302 swaps.
Definitely the Camaro. I always wanted a car in light blue...sort of.
@squablow: What about this Mustang?
It has to be the Camaro. After all, my version of Hell has ice cream and this Camaro is 95% complete!
Camaro all the way! Cheap crate motor 383, add a supercharger or some of the giggly gas and hoon away.
The Camaro. Good luck finding a hot French exchange student to help you fix that mess.
I went for the Mustang because it's a notchback, the least popular/ valuable body style for old Musclecars. All Camaros of this vintage have the same body, but whoever restores this 'Stang will always feel jealous when they see a fastback.
Also, Centerlines FTW.
Camaro all the way. The Mustang at least looks like you can make a car of it. The Camaro should have been made into sodapop cans a long time ago.
mustang with a chevy engine.
let me see
CHEVY is republican ( eisenhower)
FORD is democrat (kennedy)
this is like the early election, right??
When it comes to a 40 year old POS, I'm a Ford man.
Camaro, it is always badass at all point in time of the project.
Beater mustangs dont look as cool.
Camaro. Your neighbors will know and admire a well-restored Mustang, but they won't "get" an original '67 Camaro. Lack of understanding/admiration from friends and neighbors adds to your Hell.
Besides, if you ever succeed in restoring the Camaro, you'll lie awake at night wondering if anyone notices that the front fenders are from a '68.
@B: But everybody would love a Mustamarominochero GT/SS!
I'd rather push a Camaro than uh, push a Mustang...
I always say that my Camaro is 95% complete. Maybe the definition differs depending on the individual. I just need to install a door panel and hook up the console gauges.
Oh yeah, mine is registerd and insured too.
[homepage.mac.com]
However, it did look a lot like the PCH contender when purchased back in 1986.
I'd say the Mustang is much more hellish. Imagine the delight you'll find when you try to search junkyads for hinges and bolts that you need.
Or just pay out the ass for them at all those NOS places.
The Camaro, for me, at least, i'd be too tempted just to chuck a 383, 3.73 rear gear, posi, and a 200shot, and not touch the rust. Call it a day until it falls apart.
The Mustang, i would actually care enough to be dumb enough to try to make it at least look nice. Although just to piss all the purists off, i'd probably put an import motor in it. (Turbo Tundra motor, anyone?)
It would take the wisdom of Solomon to discern which POS is the S-tier. BUT the Camaro is 95% complete in some alternative numbers universe where 95 = 30. So get some bolts and duct tape and a welder and assemble the pieces. It's an old Cameo with a stolen nose. Who'll know if you screw it up?
The Mustang ad is cheery and positive where the Camaro is discouraging. But read the Ford story, and don't skip "Trussville, AL," which is one place I'm never going on purpose. The engine "bonus" story alone should tell you this is true hell. "Zero" miles on the motor. Well, yeah. It's never started. But it's got "some kind of" headers. (I think I'll start a company called "Some kind of" shirt, car, toy...)Everything you need right here. To go insane in Hell.
Had to show some Mustang love.
Straight Six FTW. My '65 had a Six. And not that bloated 200 Six either.
I'd normally go with the General on something like this, but I've always wanted to build a Suprang, so there you go.
@Murilee Martin: He gets extra bonus points for sarcasm. The guy in the Mustang ad really believed it.
@thunder: Damn you. I just read that guy's whole page.
Murilee: You must visit that link. That guy appears to have gone through PCH and lived to tell about it.
Ok, Grammar Nazi time!
"i have know idea"...really? It's easier to type out two extra letters incorrectly than the actual word? Somewhere out there, a high school girl's KRZR just burst into flames.
Same with "feal free to call"...it's the same freakin' letter ferchrissakes. Sometimes I swear these guys go out of their way to look illiterate.
Ok, back to business. Camaro all the way, until we can find a badass matchup of two Challengers that will be ridiculously overpriced once the new one comes out. Now that's PCH for sure.
oops!
looks like the republicans are winning here...
PCH says john McCAin will be next president...
by 65%
who woulda thunk?
I say Camaro.
You put the Mustang in/on the side/in front of your garage and your neighbors go, "Oh, he's working on a car and it just needs a few things and final paint!"
Bring that Camaro to the same party and your neighbors will have cold shakes about the declining property values from a rusting, multicolored hulk that will sit mocking them for years.
As much as I'm a Ford guy, I just don't have much attraction to the early Mustangs. I know, I'm a heathen. But Camaro it is.
Geez, I don't know. Either one sounds plenty good for PCH. If I were REALLY going to do a Camaro/Mustang project, there are plenty to buy around here. You want trouble, go for it.
I say Mustang - make the body nice, slap a screaming chicken on the bonnet, and a 1.8L V-tec under it, then take it to Barrett-Jackson for the big money.
Well the camero has its original hubcaps, and I don't like fords, but the stang guy says "Barrett Jackson", "Eleanor" and "...but I'm too lazy to get started" in the same paragraph. Plus the Mustang can turn purple on command, how bitchin' is that? It's like the Wonderbug/Schlep car thing only for real. Mustang wins.
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