Jalopnik
As we hinted at yesterday — we had the opportunity to sit down (with a group of other auto journos — but it totally felt like it was just the two of us in that room. Or maybe it's just because I could care less about the fuel economy and economic issues surrounding the General, the direction most of the auto hacks were beating their chests to) and talk with GM's big chief exec, Rick Wagoner, yesterday before his keynote address at CES. So what did we talk about? How about future Zeta products hitting US shores — like the reports we've heard of GM greenlighting an El Camino ute and a wagon for Pontiac under the G8 nameplate. Namely we were wondering about the rumors we've heard that if Pontiac builds both the wagon and the ute, the wagon will only come with a V6 engine while the ute would come in both V6 and V8 flavors. Our back-and-forth with His Slickness after the jump.
Rick, you've got the G8 coming and hitting shores now, Camaro coming next year — what other options are being discussed for the Commodore — excuse me — Zeta platform?
I can think of at least two other potential products that have been and remain on the table. One has a reasonably high likelihood, and one maybe not as high likelihood...due to fuel economy concerns.Any discussions on whether one may be a V6 only and one may be a V6/V8?
Not at this time. I think the general discussion going forward...as we look at these products will be challenging ourselves whether we need an eight in these products going forward. Hey, when you develop products...we've got to hold ourselves to a higher standard on these. I saw some early data...not sure if it was just a region of the country...but it definitely skewed towards the four's. That's a big change from the old generation.There you have it. Absolutely no answer to the question whatsoever. But now we're worried whether we'll even end up getting both a wagon and a ute. That sound you hear? That's the knot tightening in our stomachs. Yes, it makes a weird sound. Don't make fun of us, it's not very nice.That's not to say the Camaro...for younger buyers maybe a six or a turbo-charged six may hold a higher cache...
Comments
bringin' us closer to here
taking us farther than near
insecure bullshit command
shovin' our face in the sand
don't tell 'em nothin, i tell 'em nothin
just make 'em reel
lettin' 'em know that nothing is for real
don't tell 'em nothin, i tell 'em nothin
don't let 'em see
the incurability of our disease
don't beat around the bush
bringin' us closer to here
taking us farther than near
insecure bullshit command
shovin' our face in the sand
can't you see man you're fucking up the program
you've got the score maybe you've got the hand
lost your grip now you're lying on your back
lost your head caught smokin' crack
it's all you wanted
it's all you needed
don't
don't
don't beat around the bush
Ray, we are proud of you :D
It seems like a simple question really. I think that he answered it in a way, with the "putting a four cylinder in either of the products that I know you are asking about is a non-starter, would you car geeks be interested if we come up with something tasty that's not the four, and can't be the eight?"
If that's what it takes Slick Rick, roll on...the El Uterino (perhaps with flying V grille?) for me!
I remember going to the NADA convention in New Orleans while I was in college. We where at the GM party ogling the awesome badness of the Aztek. This fat cat
Pontiac dealer from Texas looks at us with his thumbs behind his belt buckle and says,"This is what you kids like nowadays, right?."
I just said "You won't sell Ten."
It is amazing how wrong the older corporate generations can be.
Why don't the bastidos just sell kit cars? Maybe the public could at least get what they want.
I know you guys like the Commodore Ute, but I just know you'd dig on the Ford Typhoon ute. 4 litres of 6, with a nice big turbo on the side for good measure.
Go beat up those guys at Dearborn. As a side benefit, it might mean they keep that engine series alive, instead of replacing it with yet another personality-free V6 from some EuroTrash, with half the torque at twice the RPM.
@smokeydog001: YEAH! I wanna Fieromino kit with the bed in the front!
Another fair question for the eight million dollar man:
Q: "Since additional Zetas may be off the table due to "fuel economy concerns", does this indicate that the days are numbered for GM's extensive line of thirsty full-size SUVs (Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon/Yukon XL, Escalade/ESV/EXT)?"
A: "Careful. This suit costs more than your education."
you could have just asked if the el camino was coming.. but nooooooo.....
@fro: "Go beat up those guys at Dearborn. As a side benefit, it might mean they keep that engine series alive, instead of replacing it with yet another personality-free V6 from some EuroTrash, with half the torque at twice the RPM."
GM could use the turbo 2.8L V6 currently in the Saab 9-3. It's at 280 hp/295 ft-lbs and can accomodate much higher levels of boost.
"Half the torque at twice the RPM?"
Sounds more like the Japanese m.o., not European.
The current crop of LS engines is capable of acieving high 20s in the mpg dept. thats in 400hp trim!
With a few steady improvements were going to see that number possibly reach 30 hwy mpg in some models. And I dont mean hybrids.
So, why all this talk of Turbo 4 cylinders in cars that deserve a hot small block?
A turbo 4 cyl will not be able to give the same performance or even close to that of an LS engine and still return decent economy in a Zeta sized car.
Now if they were to build a smaller G5 sized RWD sedan or coupe, a Turbo Ecotec would be perfect.
Altho id still prefer the LS3, LS7, or LS9
Geez why would you waste your time talking to him? You know Lutz is really running the show..
It's pretty easy to avoid the question when it's cutsey and imprecise.
Anyway, as much as I would like to pretend I have some use for a Maloo a Solstice/Sky turbo with a fixed roof is actually the perfect daily driver, hopefully GM will have a chance to get to that.
Hmm. Unless that turbo is helping out a motor that pumps diesel fuel, I don't see much "utility" in that Ute. Much more of a poseur wagon if they go the turbo route, IMHO. *.mino or *.chero's need NA 6's and 8's!
Of a possibly related note, we're getting inquiries to extend the life of the current FWD DTS/Lucerne beyond MY10, i.e., delay the implementation of the MY11 Zeta RWD versions.
Related to the marketing frufru juju saying "go 4 for future"?
@bmoredlj: "Careful. This suit costs more than your education."
My response; "Then what a shame you left your tie in the bathroom"
@danio3834: "With a few steady improvements...."
I don't think they can get 6th gear any lower.
If I could only have em bring one more over, Id say bring the wagon with the V8 and keep the ute. I like them both but I dont think there is much of a market for cowboy cadillacs anymore. Remember, those were (relatively) popular when there werent three page long option lists on pickup trucks.
I can see starting with a six, to be conservative. (sigh) Gone are the days of multiple engine options, dozens of paint and trim options...
They would fuck up the El Camino again, making it some useless overpriced piece of shit high end thing like the Chevy SSR. These guys have no clue how many people would buy a stripped down El Camino-like vehicle, preferably with a diesel or diesel-electric hybrid option.
As much as the crazy redneck in me wants a modern El Camino, I can't imagine that they'd actually be a market success. (I'm told) their original draw was that they were cheap and slightly less abusive than a truck. GM would have to decide if it's gonna be a gimmicky pseudo-performance vehicle (SSR), or cheap fun delivery vehicle. A high 200s-hp V6 ute for like 20k makes more sense than a 400hp tire-smoker.
The wagon, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense for reasons we're all familiar with. I'd bet an LS* engine with cylinder deactivation and a manual trans would get mid-to-high 20s in the mpg range.
GM: I'm a young, relatively affluent, active lifestyle buyer who will praise your name to the heavens in 2010 if you launch a manual transmission, V8 G8 wagon. (call it whatever you want, btw)
@Mad_Science: +1 on the message to GM (though I'll go for the automatic). And I'm still pleading for 2008!
I also think you're right about the cheap delivery ute. For the ute to make a lot of sales, there's going to have to be a lot of (gasp) fleet sales of base models. But they could be profitable fleet sales, especially when looking at the “big picture”—that is, how their presence affects GM's light truck CAFE rating.
The Zeta represents a huge opportunity for GM to reach back to the glory days of big ol' pre-malaise rear drivers while offering the performance and economy of a modern car. The G8 in particular seems like a legitimate American-flavored challenge to the 5-series / E-class / Lexus GS niche, and if it gets a manual it will have an instant leg up on the Chrysler 300c and Dodge Charger. But after reading Mr. Wagoner's hemming and hawing in this interview--turbo four? What the hell?--I can't help but think the General is going to royally fuck things up. Again.
There is a 4 door Commode Ute too. That would cover a niche absolutely no one has thought of in the U.S.
I take it back, Suburu had the Baja
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